On The Gods (Possible Spoiler Alert)

[DFA]

Okay I just finished re-reading the book now this time around I'm in my World Mythology class, more importantly we've finished the unit on Norse Gods. This has led me to some questions.

First off some Norse Mythology Terms are thrown around Ragnarok, Loki, Hel, Asgard, Odin, And fate being a person (Urd). Does this mean the Gods in the Nuklear Age universe are the Norse?

Also if so then is Nuke's dad Odin or is it Loki because he is the God of Fire?

[Kurosen]

It means there are beings that are just like the Norse gods and they call themselves gods. They also seem to live for a very long time -- millions of years at least -- and possess incredible powers on a level one might consider a god would possess.

Are they really gods? Are they the gods? They say so, but it's really in their own best interests to say things like that so who knows for sure.

And Nuke, who is Arel, is the son of Loki.

[DFA]

It means there are beings that are just like the Norse gods and they call themselves gods. They also seem to live for a very long time -- millions of years at least -- and possess incredible powers on a level one might consider a god would possess.

Are they really gods? Are they the gods? They say so, but it's really in their own best interests to say things like that so who knows for sure.

And Nuke, who is Arel, is the son of Loki.

Interesting you know I finally get the poem at the end. We never really studied it however now it all makes sense. However this all leads to more questions. First Arel mentions the Jotun (Or the the giants) before he leaves is that why he left he feared they'd come after him?
Also Nihel says he wanted to stop Ragnarok and undo fate by destroying the universe wouldn't it though have been easier to kill Loki since he killed Balder which started Ragnarok? Plus even if Balder died at the hands of someone besides Loki since Hel demanded everything must cry before she'd release him and Loki was the only thing that didn't with Loki out of the way even if Balder died he could still be freed from Hel's grasp.

Edit: I just realizedIf Loki is his father then the cave Nuke went to in jail must be the cave Loki is bound in after killing Balder so I guess that means Nihel had only the option of destroying Midgard to stop Ragnarok. Hmm this means it might happen in AA.

[Kurosen]

Your edit is half right. Atomik Age will deal with a much more immediate/Earthbound threat(s).

[DFA]

Your edit is half right. Atomik Age will deal with a much more immediate/Earthbound threat(s) .

Phooey meh well I guess that makes sense having Ragnarok going on would take the hero's out of the spotlight. Hopefully AA will have more nods to the Norse, I love Norse Mythology.

[Napoleon98]

Norse Mythology is the pimp :-D

[Thought]

Baldur started the chain of events that led to Ragnarok? Funny, I thought that was when the Aesir (I forget which one, exactly) killed the first giant and fashioned the world of men (or possibly the entire worl) out of his corpse. Or possibly when Odin claimed half of the Vanir (sp?) host as his own. Or when those three giantess witches first visited Asagarth and made the gods greedy. Or when Odin offered to pay the wergeld for Loki killing Otter. Or when Loki ate the witches heart (and, sortly after, sired Fenris, Hel, and Jormungund... and, I am guessing, his 4th child as well). Anywho, I'm not sure there is a time when Ragnarok became inevitable.

Of course... Nukie being Loki's child is itself odd. Supposedly, the crackling sound a fire makes is Loki beating his wife and children.

[Kurosen]

My opinion is that Ragnarok is officially inevitable when Odin first takes in Loki and they build the wall to protect Asgard from the Giants.

[Skyshot]

Depends on what you call "inevitable." Really, wasn't it inevitable Odin would take in Loki? It's generally accepted that Ragnarok became inevitable when Loki had Hodur kill Balder, an act that both led to his binding and to his release.

It means there are beings that are just like the Norse gods and they call themselves gods. They also seem to live for a very long time -- millions of years at least -- and possess incredible powers on a level one might consider a god would possess.

Are they really gods? Are they the gods? They say so, but it's really in their own best interests to say things like that so who knows for sure.

Well, then, what is a god? If they have immense power, and have access to fruit that keeps them forever young, what else do you need?

Also, DFA?

Also don't quote text containing a spoiler as the black text shows up much more easily on the grey background used for quotes. If you quote such text, remove the spoiler before submitting.

Yeah. Yay! 250 posts!

[Napoleon98]

Yes, the act of Loki guiding Hod's hand to kill Balder did essentially start the events leadign to Ragnarok. While technically every event ever was leading up to Ragnarok, Odin was told that Ragnarok would be preceeded by the Death of his son Balder (could go into more detail but really no point).

[DFA]

I didn't notice the spoiler is visible it appear to me still back. On the subject of Loki I have to disagree with Brian Loki isn't just some evil being he is as his title says a trickster. While I wouldn't say he's as good as Odin he defiantly isn't as bad the giants. Loki for those who may have forgotten is rather unique in the fact while he is a giant he basically lived with the Aesir. In my opinion Loki is supposed to reflect humans in the fact while we grow up with the potential for good and evil and are affected by outside forces it really comes down to our choices.
I also have to say that we can't just write Loki off as a bane the moment he lives with the Aesir while he caused many problems he also fixed them and fixed some that wasn't even his doing.

[Kurosen]

I never said Loki was evil. But taking him in caused many of the troubles -- through his hand directly, through him giving counsel to others, through him fixing his own bad deeds, etc. -- that shaped the world and helped to bring about Ragnarok.

And, as someone else pointed out, is that really far back enough? Odin took Loki in because of who Odin was. His personality came about due to previous life events and experiences. Those were shaped by the world that came before him, etc.

Did the gods ever have free will? In retrospect it doesn't appear so. Does that imply mortals don't either? Is that view just a distortion by looking at things as they happen backwards through time (i.e., while a coin flip may have a 50/50 chance of coming up heads or tails, if it lands heads one can look back and say it always had a 100% chance of coming up heads because that's what happened. That's a sort of chronological fallacy and may be at work when we look at lives "backwards").

[Napoleon98]

Oh no, Loki starts out as a simple prankster who does fix the problems he creates. But just before he guides Hod's hand to kill Balder he defiantely shows that he is as evil as his offspring. I mean, not only does he actively search for and find the ONLY thing in all the worlds that can harm Balder, but he sharpens it and then shows Hod where to throw, he killed Balder, straight out. Not only did he kill him, but then when Hel deemed that if every inhabitant of all the worlds shed at least a single tear for Balder's death then he owuld be released, and only a lone giant, Thokk, would not shed a single tear, and Loki was nowhere to be found. All the aesir knew that Loki and Thokk were one in the same, so nto only did he kill Balder, but he actively sought to NOT fix the problem, and all he had to do was cry... In the end, or more accurately close to the end, Loki can be considered nothing BUT evil.

[Kurosen]

Yeah, there's a point where Loki officially becomes evil. But it's a choice that he makes and he makes the choice based on what led him to that point in his life. And that happens to be all the tricks he did along the way.