How are psions lame?

[Muffin Mage]

Explain this to me...

Psions are cheap and super lame.

I don't see how. A psion will never deal more than 8d6 damage. Ever. Unless he utilizes his powers effectively. Few do. And not only that, but the rules are so restrictive that it almost mkes playing a psion a complete waste of time. Wizards laugh at his damage-doing capability, at his control spells, even at his skill set. And rightly so. A wizard in 3rd edition is far, far more powerful than any psion could hope to be. They are literally an addendum, an anachronism, a post-production, unwanted addition to a thoroughly worthless system that neither asks for nor needs psionics.

So why do we play them?

We play psions in memory of the twelve per three billion psions of editions yore. We play psions because they can do what wizards can only dream of. We play psions because they are fun as hell, even if they suck.

We play psions because we have transcended the mortal classes, and have gained the skills to play with the big boys.

We play psions because we can.

Anyone can play a wizard. But it takes skill to play a psion.

How do they suck? They suck in the way that Reagan's term in office sucked: Those who say that it sucked wished that they could do as well, but know that they could never, ever, even in their wildest dreams or most horrifying nightmares, do nearly as well.

Shove that in your ear, psion-bashers!

[Dante]

Wow... fierce defender of psions detected...

Well, psions aren't as helpless as you think. Their strengths seem to lie in their unconventional powers and their ability to initiate direct mind-to-mind combat (admittedly it is rather restricted, best reserved for psion-to-psion combat) They get more skill points and a slightly better skill and weapon selection than wizards, plus they are even more free-form than sorcerers. Incidentally, they get access to better versions of mage stuff at one level lower (e.g. They have Time Stop for 2 rounds at level 8)

Not that helpless, but a well-prepared wizard could still trump a psion.

[Derek R.]

I have a fetish for Mindflayers. Mmm

[Neverwhere]

ever faced a lvl 40 monk/psion?


Think Goku.. then cower in fear...

[Deathosaurus Wrecks]

this must be psions from DnD or some other sort of game that im not familier with. the only psions i know of are those from Aeon Trinity or System Shock 2, and they unleash crazy psychokinetic punishment.

[Neverwhere]

D&D psions will kick your ass... they are way too powerful for most normal sessions, and, if combined with the monk class, can literally do what DBZ/GT characters do. Power-up with the aura, fly, kamehameha type attacks, etc. Waaaay powerful. Psions are just awesome in D&D

[Dante]

Is that 3rd or 2nd Ed?

[Kaldar]

Yeah, some of those psychic feats look more like monk feats than anything else. It's like tossing reality out the window.

Of course, soe of that stuff monks could conceivably do already with the right skills...but it helps to have a Feat on your side.

[Muffin Mage]

Psions got shafted in 3rd. That's obvious. Skills don't mean jack squat, and psions are only more flexible than sorcerers in that they aren't restricted by level.

But that's not the point. I could beat the crap out of a lvl 40 psion/monk with a lvl 30 wizard in five rounds at the most. By level 30, any wizard worth his salt should have auto silent/still/quicken for lvl 9 spells and at least one extra quickened spell per round. It's simple: Time Stop for 5 rounds, cast two or more delayed blast fireballs each round, timed to go off once the Time Stop ends, then teleport a good distance away.

As to psionic combat, have you ever used it? I sure haven't, and I've been using psionics for about a year and a half. Mostly because my DMs have been too pansyish to throw psionic monsters at us.

You have to face something: Wizards have a more flexible spell pool than psions do. They can do everything, and can do it without sucking at it. Let me use an example: In my current campaign, I'm using a psion, and there are two wizards in the party. My best direct-damage spell is Concussion, which does 3d6 damage. My wizardly homies have fireball and lightning bolt, each of which deal 1d6 per level (up to 10d6). Even a half-blind one-armed monkey with a brain tumor can tell that they are better off than I am. Admittedly, there are psionic powers that are useful in different ways (like RM's psion twink), but in general, a naked psion alone in a dark room is far more helpless than a sorcerer (not a wizard, because he couldn't memorize spells).

I'll come back and rant some more later.

[Neverwhere]

Hah! Btco of a lvl 40 monk/psion with a level 30 wizard? Yeah right. One word: saves. Monk saves are ungodly high and, when combined with the right items, are next to fool proof. Not to mention as a mage you will probably be going 2nd in the combat sequence and *bam* concentration check higher than a fugging kite. 15+damage taken+spell level <-- very high when monks can attack ~8 times with d20 dmg/hit. A mage would get destroyed by a a psion/monk. And your comparing low level people. Not to mention your also having the wrong psion class. There are multiple psion classes, each with its good points and bad points. Ill edit this later with what classes are avail to psions, but sorcs wouldnt hold ground against a psion/monk.

[Kaldar]

timed to go off once the Time Stop ends

That's a waste of spell levels. ANY spell you cast won't go off till the Time Stop ends...

Anyway, fireballs are WORTHLESS against monks. Inproved evasion means no reflex-save spell will EVER hit a monk. Usually your only hope is to repeatedly hit him with Finger of Death or some kind of epic necromancy spell until he dies.

However, the monk would probably have a hell of a time fighting a wizard if he became ethereal or something...

In a real fight, however, the 30th level mage would summon a 60th level drago or soemthing with Gate and watch it break the monk in half and eat him for lunch, while hiding under invisibility or in the Astral plane.

[Neverwhere]

you guys are missing the point... as I said the monk would, almost every time, go first. Dexterity is in the monks favour and he would be able to hit the wizard for more damage than one concentration check could ever hope to overcome. Thats why a monk would destroy a wizard. Oh, and Id be more than happy to settle this with a little battle... just give me a week to two to plan a character

[edit] Not to mention the fact that no dragon would be controlled by a lesser being (i.e. a lvl 60 draco would not let a lvl 30 char order him around unless that lvl 30 man has something else up his sleeve [like a favour or something])

[N_I3]

One word, Constructor.

Astral consturcts may seem weak at first glance, but you start adding some of those constructor only abilities and spawn 3-4 a round soon enough you'll have an army on your side appearing right next to whoever you want ready to tear into them. Target has a hugh AC, how about a 4 way concussion blast or a few of their ranged touch attack abilities. Seriously these psions rock.

[Raerlynn]

Psions can actually be very easily limited. There's a variant rule in the handbook that states That creatures with Spell Resistance have an equal amount of Psychic Resistance, and vice versa.

Translation: SR 100 = PR 100 = Damn near immune

Personally the only thing that I have against a psion is the thrice be damned multi purpose tool that is Telekinesis. I wil never forget the villan psion that used TK to set not one, not two, BUT THREE LONG SPEARS AGAINST MY CHARGE. Ow...I'm still pulling splinters out of my spleen from that one.

[Demon with a Glass Hand]

*shrugs* Psionisist are nothing when unimaginative people helm the game they're in.

Try gaming a Psion in a campaign where a 40th level Psion is equal in power to say ... Ms. Cleo.

[Muffin Mage]

Think about it this way:

In every game I've ever played a psion in, there is a psionic population of 1.

There are never items.

There are never people with whom I can discuss psionic things.

There are never baddies to use my spiffy psychic combat modes against.

There are always people who want to tear me apart for witchcraft, while their village priest can do far more than I can.

To play a psion is to be alone, and that's hard on a decent character.

[Demon with a Glass Hand]

Gm: You encounter another Psion. Muffin being the only Psion in the group, what do you do?

Muffin: Well, I guess I try to open contact with her.

Gm: Hi, darling. How are you?

Muffin: Well, I ...

Gm: You're a Libra aren't ya, darlin'?

Muffin: What? No, I'm ...

Gm: Is there a man in your life?

Muffin: What the hell are you talking about?! No!

Gm: Chinese guy with a mustache ...

Muffin: No!

Gm: Yep, that's the daddy ...

See. Not much fun is it?