Army officer kills 12 at Ft. Hood, TX

[Flarecobra]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_fort_hood_shooting

An Army mental health professional has killed 12 at Fort Hood, TX today. 31 people have been wounded. MPs killed the gunman, and have arrested 2 others. More details will be released when the soldier's families have been notified.

EDIT: Apperentally they leaked the gunman's name. Army Maj. Malik Nadal Hasan. They're not sure yet as to motive.

[Tev]

I've been following this off and on today. This is really not the best way to start off November.

[Flarecobra]

UPDATE: FORT HOOD, Texas – A U.S. Army spokesman says the Fort Hood shootings suspect is alive and was not killed by authorities responding to the attack.

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_fort_hood_shooting

[Bob the Mercenary]

Been also following this all day. The people who are taking the guy's last name and insinuating terrorism are going down an irresponsible and dangerous road. I hope they can restrain themselves until a full investigation is carried out.

My prayers are with the soldiers and their families.

[Eltargrim]

An Army mental health professional has killed 12 at Fort Hood, TX today.

Irony much?

But seriously, this underscores the need for all military, not just the US, to provide a better framework of support for their soldiers. War is traumatizing, and these people deserve help if they need it. From what I've been reading, they haven't been getting an awful lot of support (especially female veterans. The NYT had an article about it just the other day. The difference in how male and female veterans are treated is saddening).

[POS Industries]

But seriously, this underscores the need for all military, not just the US, to provide a better framework of support for their soldiers. War is traumatizing, and these people deserve help if they need it. From what I've been reading, they haven't been getting an awful lot of support (especially female veterans. The NYT had an article about it just the other day. The difference in how male and female veterans are treated is saddening).
On top of that, Ft. Hood has apparently never exactly been sunshine and gumdrops, even in peacetime. Back when my father was stationed there, suicides were an all-too-common occurrence. On one occasion, a friend of his came home to find his roommate had hung himself, which naturally made the man immediately ill. Upon running to the bathroom to vomit, he found his other roommate hanging there.

Granted, this was three decades ago, but if this most recent tragedy is any indication, we're really doing a piss poor job when it comes to the treatment of our soldiers and we have been for a very long time.

[Yumil]

Apparently he was going to be deployed within the week>.<

It's very scary when a psychiatrist breaks, but I have heard a small number of psychiatrists are predisposed towards it since they themselves have problems or have had problems>.<

[bluestarultor]

Apparently he was going to be deployed within the week>.<

It's very scary when a psychologist breaks, but I have heard a small number of psychiatrists are predisposed towards it since they themselves have problems or have had problems>.<

On top of that, they need to deal with everyone else's problems, which is probably more stressful for some than others. My brother is going into psychology and doesn't seem to realize he's not going to be given a magical "fix everything" wand. Psychologists, according to a friend of my mom's, spend a lot of their time just listening to people complain with no intention of fixing their own problems, or with people who expect the psychologist to fix their problems for them somehow who tend to rage quit when it doesn't happen.

[Nikose Tyris]

On top of that, they need to deal with everyone else's problems, which is probably more stressful for some than others. My brother is going into psychology and doesn't seem to realize he's not going to be given a magical "fix everything" wand. Psychologists, according to a friend of my mom's, spend a lot of their time just listening to people complain with no intention of fixing their own problems, or with people who expect the psychologist to fix their problems for them somehow who tend to rage quit when it doesn't happen.

Your mom's friend is mistaken, or had some shitty experience with Psychiatrists.

A Psychiatrist, or Sociologist, is given schooling on methods for coping with anger, grief, and a number of other painful emotions, and they help find outlets for those feelings. While there is no 'fix everything' wand, it's a career of helping others that I am still considering going back to school for. Not everyone can benefit from a sociologist, but anyone who's ever sat and just confided in someone, and felt better afterwards, can tell you there's a big benefit in the career.

[POS Industries]

Your mom's friend is mistaken, or had some shitty experience with Psychiatrists.

A Psychiatrist, or Sociologist, is given schooling on methods for coping with anger, grief, and a number of other painful emotions, and they help find outlets for those feelings. While there is no 'fix everything' wand, it's a career of helping others that I am still considering going back to school for. Not everyone can benefit from a sociologist, but anyone who's ever sat and just confided in someone, and felt better afterwards, can tell you there's a big benefit in the career.
Everything about this is wrong.

What you're describing is psychotherapy, which is different from psychiatry (a medical field that deals primarily with things like neurochemical disorders), sociology (which is the study of social interactions in communities), and psychology (which focuses on internalized behavioral functions). With the exception of sociology, these things tend to work hand-in-hand with the treatment of patients and naturally share some commonalities, but they are far from one and the same.

[bluestarultor]

Your mom's friend is mistaken, or had some shitty experience with Psychiatrists.

A Psychiatrist, or Sociologist, is given schooling on methods for coping with anger, grief, and a number of other painful emotions, and they help find outlets for those feelings. While there is no 'fix everything' wand, it's a career of helping others that I am still considering going back to school for. Not everyone can benefit from a sociologist, but anyone who's ever sat and just confided in someone, and felt better afterwards, can tell you there's a big benefit in the career.

Psychiatry, psychology, and sociology are three different professional areas. Psychiatrists have a degree in both psychology and medicine, and can prescribe medications to patients. They deal with the people who have treatable mental disorders. Psychologists don't have a medical degree and end up being things like counselors, social workers, and private practice non-pill-prescribing shrinks. Sociologists are what one could think of as "social psychiatrists" and do not have a focus on individuals nearly as much as how multiple individuals interact.

I mean, as long as we're talking jargon, I'd just like to have my set of terms defined from my own education and my brother's. Maybe it's a bit different in Canada, but those are the terms I'm familiar with.



That all said, the person I quoted said "psychologist" off the bat, which I'll admit confused me a bit. A look back at the article says he's a psychiatrist, which is a bit different than I was assuming with that post. So, my bad.


Edit: Snap! Ninja'd by POS.

[Nikose Tyris]

Everything about this is wrong.

What you're describing is psychotherapy, which is different from psychiatry (a medical field that deals primarily with things like neurochemical disorders), sociology (which is the study of social interactions in communities), and psychology (which focuses on internalized behavioral functions). With the exception of sociology, these things tend to work hand-in-hand with the treatment of patients and naturally share some commonalities, but they are far from one and the same.

Fair enough. The woman I went to referred to herself as a Sociologist, but I can admit to being wrong.

[Donomni]

Been also following this all day. The people who are taking the guy's last name and insinuating terrorism are going down an irresponsible and dangerous road. I hope they can restrain themselves until a full investigation is carried out.

My mom already said "He's Muslim."

It's not even something I argue about anymore: My family is as stubborn as a concrete wall. -__-;

[Yumil]

That all said, the person I quoted said "psychologist" off the bat, which I'll admit confused me a bit. A look back at the article says he's a psychiatrist, which is a bit different than I was assuming with that post. So, my bad.


Edit: Snap! Ninja'd by POS.

Sorry, Ill edit it. Dont know why I said that at the start, since I did say the correct word on the next sentence.

[Magus]

I believe the reason that the terrorism theory was given creedence (other than his name sounds Arabic, of course, as some people will knee-jerk that way) is initially two other people were reported as being held as suspects in the shooting, as if they had worked in tandem. I'm pretty sure at this point the only person being held is Hassan, which points to it just being the case of a psychotic, murderous breakdown, not a terror plot as such.

Hopefully everything is delineated clearly tomorrow.

[Aerozord]

what I find odd is he used non-military issued weapons. Mostly because this confuses me as to why, when you literally have a vast variety of weapons around you, you still opt to smuggle in outside ones. If you intend to go on a murderous rampage doesn't the military have the best stuff for that?

[Magus]

That kind of stuff is tightly controlled in weapons lockers and so forth, I'd suspect. It might be literally easier to smuggle in a weapon than to get one out of weapon storage. Basically for his duties there would be no reason for him to have access to weapons on a day-to-day basis so it's unlikely he could use military weapons at all to do this.

[Azisien]

My mom already said "He's Muslim."

It's not even something I argue about anymore: My family is as stubborn as a concrete wall. -__-;

Then it's not just your mom failing...

[Funka Genocide]

Then it's not just your mom failing...


yeah it kinda is. He said anymore, he's tried. He was unsuccessful. Can't change people that don't want to change. Can't make people want to change.

People are responsible for their own decisions, not for the decisions of others. At best you can provide your honest estimation when asked in this situation. This situation being people who are willfully prejudiced. It kind of sucks when it's your family, but there's really no obligation to go around proselytizing with The One Truth.

Not saying that you can't do just that, or that I haven't myself, just that from a purely success based standpoint it's useless. People will just ignore you or worse. Only real way to force change would be by force, and I mean nobody wants to beat their mother into compliance. (and in any case that sort of enforcement typically loses efficacy when the immediate threat of violence is removed, I guess there's always brainwashing but that's far too labor intensive and requires too much control over another person's life to be effectively implemented in a typical family setting from the vantage point of a child, parents on the other hand have carte blanche to employ such methods and often times find success.)

Beating one's head against the proverbial wall might be considered noble, but it's not going to garner much useful effect.

[Bob the Mercenary]

Okay, maybe it did have something to do with it. Just heard a report that the shooter shouted "allah akbar" before starting his rampage. Of course this hasn't been confirmed yet.

[Marc v1.0]

Heard from where?

[Bob the Mercenary]

NPR, I think that's pretty much all they get around here.

[Mirai Gen]

Okay, maybe it did have something to do with it. Just heard a report that the shooter shouted "allah akbar" before starting his rampage. Of course this hasn't been confirmed yet.

Did he also say "Mohammed islam jihad durka durka"? I don't think we can call this proper journalism.

[Bob the Mercenary]

Even if it's based off an eye witness account?

I'm not implying that I want this to be religiously motivated, just saying what I heard. If it's false then it's false. They already got one thing wrong. Him being dead and all.

[bluestarultor]

Even if it's based off an eye witness account?

I'm not implying that I want this to be religiously motivated, just saying what I heard. If it's false then it's false. They already got one thing wrong. Him being dead and all.

Eye witness accounts shouldn't even count as evidence. It's been proven time and again that the human brain misses stuff, focuses on other stuff, and fills in huge gaps after the fact with preconceived expectations, especially in hectic and emotional situations. All it takes is one person to have a panic attack and think Teh Muslims are after them for the news media to snatch on and blow totally out of proportion and repeat loudly and often enough that the masses think it's true.

The guy was in the military, for crying out loud, and managed to only kill 12 people and injure 31 others. With a gun. If he really wanted to do some terrorism, a single homemade bomb would do just as much or more damage and even remove him from the site. And a real terrorist would have more than that. This act had what looks like no real planning and did very little damage, when he could have easily devastated the entire complex if he'd had any real intention to.

[NonCon]

Even if it's based off an eye witness account?

No, I do not think a single eyewitness account that claims he was saying Islamic words is very reliable.

[Nikose Tyris]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120159765

This is the NPR link Bob is referring to.

Edit: I'm not 100% certain, but I believe this is the Today show episode they are speaking of, and the specific quote attributed to him is never spoken:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGlrwYvj9z8

Edit: I found the specific quote.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlW4O3zOA4E

He specifically said "Unconfirmed."

[Mirai Gen]

No, I know, it's even in the report Flare linked. It just seems exceptionally unlikely that an Army officer suddenly decides to go on a stereotyped religious fanatic rampage. Something about it being reported but unconfirmed seems really suspicious.

[Nikose Tyris]

I know. I just wanted to make sure all quotes were shown in the correct and relevant light, for everyone's benefit.

[Mirai Gen]

I was actually replying to Bob and got distracted. But yeah, it still works.

[Donomni]

Beating one's head against the proverbial wall might be considered noble, but it's not going to garner much useful effect.

Especially if said wall tries to flatten you by trying to convince you that all Muslims will kill you when given the chance, Obama's some sort of really sneaky man, etc, etc...

My mom's a product of mass media and anecdotal insane fear-mongering religious chain letter mom-mails, with a dad(aka my Grandpa) that keeps calling blacks that N-word white people aren't allowed to use... bleh.

The sad truth is she works too much and has a divorce as well going on, so trying to understand that not everyone of a single religion are nutjobs isn't high on her priority list, even if she wanted to.

Anyways, on-topic: I've seen some people say these bases are the safest places to live in the world. Is it wrong I think that's not really true, considering all the soldiers(Of which quite a few are probably unstable), at the very least?

[Funka Genocide]

Strangely enough unstable soldiers are far more likely to cause harm to themselves than others. (either through substance abuse and subsequent addiction or actul self inflicted physical trauma or death.)

This is just a weird instance that doesn't indicate a trend. We should be more worried about our troops suicide rate than homicide rate, which is relatively low.

[Tev]

Anyways, on-topic: I've seen some people say these bases are the safest places to live in the world. Is it wrong I think that's not really true, considering all the soldiers(Of which quite a few are probably unstable), at the very least?Well, ask yourself this: It's almost December. To date, this year, how many people do you think were killed or assaulted in your city? More than thirteen? This is being billed as the “worst killing on a US base…..ever.” More people were killed in my city this year for sure.

Needless to say, even with this, I’d feel safer on a military base than anywhere else.

[krogothwolf]

Strangely enough unstable soldiers are far more likely to cause harm to themselves than others. (either through substance abuse and subsequent addiction or actul self inflicted physical trauma or death.)

This is just a weird instance that doesn't indicate a trend. We should be more worried about our troops suicide rate than homicide rate, which is relatively low.

I agree, but the news media doesn't report the troops suicides but just them killing or robbing people. Generally a soldier going off and killing like this is rare.

[The Gunslinger]

This was really scary for me to hear about. I'm from a military family and the son of some family friends, practicly an older brother to me, is set to go back to Hood from the middle east in a few weeks. His mom, who has had a hard time with both her sons being deployed, was a little shaken.

[Donomni]

Well, ask yourself this: It's almost December. To date, this year, how many people do you think were killed or assaulted in your city? More than thirteen? This is being billed as the “worst killing on a US base…..ever.” More people were killed in my city this year for sure.

Needless to say, even with this, I’d feel safer on a military base than anywhere else.

Point there, then. Chalk that up to the words worst and ever, and completely missing the fact a tragedy of sorts there would be simply local news that might interest the big media elsewhere(Or not, depending on the scale and gunner).

[01d55]

Gleen Greenwald (http://www.erfworld.com/page/12/) points out that all of that nonsense you guys was exposed to was nonsense and predictably so.

[Megaman FTW]

What was that?

[Bob the Mercenary]

Maybe not all of it was nonsense.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/fort-hood-shooter-contact-al-qaeda-terrorists-officials/story?id=9030873

[bluestarultor]

Maybe not all of it was nonsense.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/fort-hood-shooter-contact-al-qaeda-terrorists-officials/story?id=9030873

Well, this is highly unfortunate. So much for progress.

I guess the question now is why they let the guy in and why the warning signs weren't heeded. If the guy was throwing up red flags, it should never have gotten to this point. The military is a pretty tight ship. I'm not saying the backlash I'm sure is going to happen is directly the military's fault, but it's incredibly damaging to the image of the government as a whole for this to slip through the cracks and get picked up by the media. You know conservatives are going to blame Obama for this one somehow, and probably snowball that into a front against any progress he tries to make.

[Tev]

Don't you worry; our buddy Joe is on the case!

On Sunday, Sen. Joseph Lieberman (D-CT) called for an investigation into whether the Army missed signs as to whether Hasan was an Islamic extremist.

"If Hasan was showing signs, saying to people that he had become an Islamist extremist, the U.S. Army has to have a zero tolerance," Lieberman told Fox News Sunday.
It's only a matter of time now before he works Obama into this.

[Bob the Mercenary]

Political correctness. I'm going to guess that's why they never pursued this. I mean he attends the same mosque as the 9/11 hijackers, with the same radical imam, communicates with terrorist organization, tells others at a seminar that "infidels should be beheaded and have hot oil poured down their throats" (just heard that one on ABC)... walks like a duck, quacks like a duck... but let's not jump to any conclusions.

The news then went on to quote his fellow soldiers as saying they didn't want to report him for fear of being labeled racists.

This political correctness bullshit has got to stop.

[Viridis]

It's only a matter of time now before he works Obama into this.Just to cut out the crazy bull like that before it starts: Did Obama or his administration make any changes to the screening process or anything similar that? Or is the process exactly the same as under the Bush administration?

[Bob the Mercenary]

Please, can you imagine if they found an O'reilly book at his house? Then conservatives would be catching the blame. I'm waiting for the usual game of pong to begin on this one.

[Bob the Mercenary]

And here comes his imam saying he did the right thing and calling him a hero. (http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/11/us-born-islamic-cleric-nidal-hasan-did-the-right-thing.html)

The fact that fighting against the US army is an Islamic duty today cannot be disputed.
Nidal opened fire on soldiers who were on their way to be deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan. How can there be any dispute about the virtue of what he has done? In fact the only way a Muslim could Islamically justify serving as a soldier in the US army is if his intention is to follow the footsteps of men like Nidal.

There's your problem right there. Why do we not have this guy chained to a chair in a dark room with a slowly revolving fan and light in his face?

[Edit] Rereading that article, and the comments below it, I have to clarify that I find some of those comments absolutely revolting, such as the people who want all Muslims out of the country, and vilify the entire nation of Islam.

[Viridis]

And here comes his imam saying he did the right thing and calling him a hero. (http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/11/us-born-islamic-cleric-nidal-hasan-did-the-right-thing.html)

From the other end of the spectrum, Muslims in America who disavow the shooter: "Murder has no religion" (http://www.cnn.com/2009/OPINION/11/09/iftikhar.fort.hood/index.html).

Most of the world's 1.57 billion Muslims know that the Holy Quran states quite clearly that, "Anyone who kills a human being ... it shall be as though he has killed all of mankind. ... If anyone saves a life, it shall be as though he has saved the lives of all of mankind."
I never knew this line (in fact I know very little of the Quran's content). It sounds both awesome and poetic.

[Bob the Mercenary]

I hope you didn't misunderstand me and assume I am of the opinion that Islam is a murderous religion. At least that's how I read your post. Actually, I'm just referring to the one man. The guy who is actively preaching the deception and murder of our armed forces.

If I read it wrong I apologize.

And yeah, that is an awesome line. :)

[Premonitions]

Rereading that article, and the comments below it, I have to clarify that I find some of those comments absolutely revolting, such as the people who want all Muslims out of the country, and vilify the entire nation of Islam.

Islam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam)
Nation Of Islam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_schools_and_branches#Nation_of_Islam)
and now you know....
Also, that site is called Jihad watch, that raises a flag for me....

[Viridis]

I hope you didn't misunderstand me and assume I am of the opinion that Islam is a murderous religion.

Of course not. Just didn't want people to get the wrong impression from that one guy (the imam), so I showed an example of what other Muslims are saying.

[Bob the Mercenary]

Islam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam)
Nation Of Islam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_schools_and_branches#Nation_of_Islam)
and now you know....

o_O;

Bad typo on my part. Thanks.

Also, that site is called Jihad watch, that raises a flag for me....


I googled the speech and it came up with more than one source. Seems to be credible, at least this once.

[MasterOfMagic]

A little more info on how exactly he reached out to al-Qaeda and why nothing was done:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8353248.stm
An FBI-led task force monitoring the e-mail of Yemen-based Anwar al-Awlaki said he had communicated with Maj Hasan - a US-born Muslim and army psychiatrist - on 10 to 20 occasions.

However, it was decided that further investigation was not needed, as the content of the messages did not advocate or threaten violence.

[Bob the Mercenary]

Not sure if this really applies, it just got me a bit steamed last night. Anderson Cooper interviewed Revolution Muslim Brother Yousef Al-Khattab last night. He said this:
I love Osama Bin Laden, I wallahi (swear to Allah). I love him! I love him like more than -- more than I love myself. Is [President] Obama a murderer, a tyrant, a scumbag? Absolutely he is. If they killed him, would I shed a tear? Absolutely I would not.

Then Drew Griffin talked to Muslim Brother Yunis Abdullah Mohammed and he had this to say:
MOHAMMED: We're commanded to terrorize the disbelievers.

GRIFFIN: Commanded to terrorize the disbelievers?

MOHAMMED: The Koran says very clearly in the Arabic language: "Terrorize them." It's a command from Allah!

GRIFFIN: So you're commanded --

MOHAMMED: To terrorize them.

GRIFFIN: -- to terrorize --

MOHAMMED: Doesn't mean...

GRIFFIN: -- anybody who doesn't believe?

MOHAMMED: You define terrorism as going and killing an innocent civilian. That's what your --

GRIFFIN: And you?

MOHAMMED: I define terrorism as making them fearful so that they think twice before they go rape your mother or kill your brother or go onto your land and try to steal your resources.

[NonCon]

That last line reminds me of how Scientology convinces its members that non-believers are all rapists, murderers, and hate all Scientologists, as in the people not the belief system.

[Smarty McBarrelpants]

My problem is that's rather irresponsible journalism. That interpretation of the Koran is very much a minority position. I could find Christains who use the Bible as justification for wiping out their enemies. I can find atheists who use science to justify it. There are always crackjobs floating around and giving them media attention just crystallises negative stereotypes of the evil Muslims.

[Premonitions]

DUDE! Are you advocating not replacing the word "Muslim" with it's true meaning, "Terrorist"? I'd expect that from a dirty foreigner like you... Commie.... I'm sending Captain America to kick your ass!

[Smarty McBarrelpants]

I looked it up! The word "muslim" means "one who submits to God" not "person who blows up innocents!". It was in the dictionary and everything. I was shocked.

[Mirai Gen]

My problem is that's rather irresponsible journalism. That interpretation of the Koran is very much a minority position. I could find Christains who use the Bible as justification for wiping out their enemies. I can find atheists who use science to justify it. There are always crackjobs floating around and giving them media attention just crystallises negative stereotypes of the evil Muslims.

The Koran isn't exactly daisies and gumdrops itself. You might have people who stretch the Bible to ethnic cleansing, but the Koran is a bit more specific.

[Smarty McBarrelpants]

It's not that much worse than the Bible, we just tend to ignore those parts. For every "smite your enemy" there is a "love your enemy" and while it is more aggressive about converting those of opposite faith that doesn't necessarily translate into extreme violence.
I mean there are about 1.5 billion muslims in the world, mostly from economically marginalised countries which should produce terrorists regardless of religion, but the number of terrorists is ridiculously low. It is more of a justification for what they would be doing anyway than a catalyst.

And I mean it's not like the Bible isn't littered with stuff like this
"When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you may nations...then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them and show them no mercy." Deuteronomy 7:1-2, NIV. 1
"...do not leave alive anything that breaths. Completely destroy them...as the Lord your God has commanded you..." Deuteronomy 20:16, NIV. 1
That's as bad as anything in the Koran and maybe a little worse because the sections in the Koran talking about Jihad and things are subject to a lot of debate as to their linguistic meaning which I'm not sure exists for stuff like this.

I'm not defending the Koran- it's full of some crazy shit- but then again, so is pretty much everything.

[bluestarultor]

From what I was lead to understand, the Jihad was all the stuff you COULDN'T do to your enemies. Also, that it had a much stronger focus on the battle with the self than the battles with others.

Simply put, the Muslim terrorists are picking and twisting the words they want to get the meaning they want out of it. The same goes for those crazy-ass Christians who are out to ruin the environment to faster bring about the end of the world, or any other extremist sect.

[01d55]

I could find Christains who use the Bible as justification for wiping out their enemies.

Well hey, look at Glenn Greenwald over there (http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2009/11/12/terrorism/index.html), doing exactly that instead of just saying he could and not proving it.

[Smarty McBarrelpants]

Well I didn't think anyone would disagree with me and couldn't be assed. Cause we've all seen the crazies on tv.

From what I was lead to understand, the Jihad was all the stuff you COULDN'T do to your enemies. Also, that it had a much stronger focus on the battle with the self than the battles with others.


I thuoght that was true as well but I'm not sure.

[Premonitions]

I looked it up! The word "muslim" means "one who submits to God" not "person who blows up innocents!". It was in the dictionary and everything. I was shocked.
Liberal Comie Socialist Propaganda!

[Smarty McBarrelpants]

Liberal Comie Socialist Propaganda!

I'll have you know my dictionary was published by Webster, an upright god-fearing man who stand for none of your most slanderous frippery

[Bob the Mercenary]

And I mean it's not like the Bible isn't littered with stuff like this
"When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you may nations...then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them and show them no mercy." Deuteronomy 7:1-2, NIV. 1
"...do not leave alive anything that breaths. Completely destroy them...as the Lord your God has commanded you..." Deuteronomy 20:16, NIV. 1
That's as bad as anything in the Koran and maybe a little worse because the sections in the Koran talking about Jihad and things are subject to a lot of debate as to their linguistic meaning which I'm not sure exists for stuff like this.

I'm not defending the Koran- it's full of some crazy shit- but then again, so is pretty much everything.

To be fair, God was commanding them to destroy the Canaanites, a civilization that literally worshipped sex and offered human sacrifices using their own children. And there are arguments that the phrase "destroy them completely and utterly" is a metaphor for what Christians should do to the lusts and sinful thoughts that come against them, since most want only to manage them, not destroy them.

The same goes for the Koran. I haven't read the entire thing, but I'm sure there are plenty of reasonable explanations for verses like that. Speaking of which, there are so many books out there that claim to explain "the real meaning of the Koran", but they are almost always slanted one way or the other.

[Edit] And everyone knows Webster was a pinko. ;)

[CABAL49]

A lot of people mix the Koran with Sharia Law. Sharia Law was written after the death of Mohamed, and is not followed as closely outside of the Middle East. Either way it is a separate document.

[Premonitions]

To be fair, God was commanding them to destroy the Canaanites, a civilization that literally worshipped sex and offered human sacrifices using their own children. And there are arguments that the phrase "destroy them completely and utterly" is a metaphor for what Christians should do to the lusts and sinful thoughts that come against them, since most want only to manage them, not destroy them.
Except then god punished them for not KIlling EVERYTHING, and eating some of the sheep and crops. And what, exactly is wrong with a religion based on sex? I mean, if you're not the kind of person who thinks sex is teh EEEEBILZ! what's the problem? all the other things aside...
I'll have you know my dictionary was published by Webster, an upright god-fearing man who stand for none of your most slanderous frippery
Dictionary publisher? sounds like an elitist, and not a Real American
I can't Italicize that phrase enough to satisfy myself

[Viridis]

Dictionary publisher? sounds like an elitist, and not a Real American

And an intellectual at that.