Prosphetic Limb Technology: They can feel sensation now?

[Corel]

New robotic hand 'can feel'

A team of scientists from Italy and Sweden has developed what is believed to be the first artificial hand that has feeling.

It has been attached to the arm of a 22-year-old man who lost his own hand through cancer.

Researchers say it works by connecting human nerve endings with tiny electronic sensors.

Source: BBC news


Video included with article. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8313037.stm)

I do not really follow research and developments of prosthetic limbs. However what this device is said to do blows me away.

This for me really does feel like some sort of Sci-Fi technology. Very useful in lightsabre fights.

[krogothwolf]

Sweet, we are one step away from creating our super cops and people armed with weapon arms. This also means we finally have cyborgs walking among us.

I for one welcome our new Cyborg overlords!

Seriously though, I could see ways this could go wrong for the person involved, Like if a general malfunction happened it might have a chance to cause seirous nerve damage to the person.

[Funka Genocide]

you spelled prosthetic wrong...

I'd be more excited about actually growing and reattaching a new, biological hand but yeah, if its true that's pretty sweet.

[Magus]

Bah, robot hands are cooler than regular hands, even if at this point the technology can't replicate the same agility of human movement. Just think--if you've had one prosthetic hand attached without too many months of impairment, eventually we'll get to the point that losing a hand is not a big deal and we'll be like Darth Vader and go around getting them cut off at the drop of a hat. Technology will eventually make them as agile as real human hands but they'll probably be "better" in the strength department.

I can't wait to try out my new woodchipper with wild abandon.

I wouldn't mind a Ghost in the Shell-level of cyborgs, although the whole "downloading your brain data into a computer brain" is kind of stupid. I think I'd like to stick with an organic brain in an otherwise bio-technological body, since much like with teleportation we don't really know if the "real" person would survive the transfer of information, or if it would simply be a perfect copy. Although I think if we're to the point that we're defining a collection of electronic data as a person then I'd say the original person has died. So everything can be cybernetic except brains and I'd be cool with it.

[Tev]

This is one step closer to the cyber-punk dystopian future I yearn for. I approve of this technology.

[Magus]

It doesn't have to be dystopian. Just because we have cybernetic limbs doesn't mean we have to quit killing each other over petty beliefs or having an underclass of non-cyborgs who do our daily hard labor so our society runs for little pay. We can even deny people cyberization based on pre-existing conditions creating higher risk for need for replacement limbs. It'll be as perfect as our society is now only we'll be able to run ten miles without getting tired.

[Corel]

you spelled prosthetic wrong...


Oh dear, think the Editing time for the title is up. If anyone could edit it to be correct much appreciated!


Seriously though, I could see ways this could go wrong for the person involved, Like if a general malfunction happened it might have a chance to cause seirous nerve damage to the person.

I'm not even going to pretend to know how this technology works, however I could take wild guesses that the device would measure and record things such like heart beat or nerve activity (If this is possible?). If anything that it measures is not correct it probably would be made to power down the device (Or jettisoned straight forward; just in case the person was being mugged).

Still, maybe there could be a risk of what you described above. However I like to think that if this becomes more popular it would have a ridiculous amount of fail safes on top of that constant maintenance such occurrences would be rare or freak accidents.

I wonder what the sensation actually feels like, and what it can simulate?

Also? Needs USB 3 in it.

[BitVyper]

it might have a chance to cause seirous nerve damage to the person.

If they need a prosthetic limb, they already have serious nerve damage. If you're talking about damaging something beyond the already-damaged nerves... I'm not sure the nervous system is really capable of that. It'd be like how getting hit in the shields causes random console explosions in Star Trek - it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. Admitably, I slept through a lot of my neural biology classes, so I may be talking out of my ass, but I don't think you could actually get the kind of feedback that would damage other parts of your body. I could see a mishap causing a lot of pain, maybe, and maybe further damaging nerves at the site of the connection but then that's what beta testing is for.

Sensation aside, aren't prosthetic limbs already making direct use of the body's nervous system anyway?

[bluestarultor]

Is it wrong that the first thing I think of seeing this is how wonderful it will be when applied to robots?

It's wrong, isn't it? :sweatdrop


I mean, it's totally awesome that we can now give people limbs with feedback that links directly to their nerves, but I was expecting something, I dunno, probably WAY outside of current technology, like a hand that looks like a normal hand and has multiple sensation points in the palm and fingers and even the back of it embedded in a rubber skin. I mean, this thing is pretty great, but it doesn't look all that impressive, which makes it a bit underwhelming.

[Sithdarth]

I mean, this thing is pretty great, but it doesn't look all that impressive, which makes it a bit underwhelming.

Here's an idea. We'll cut off your hand and let you run around with a hook for a few years and then give you one. After that we'll ask you again how underwhelming you think it is. I mean its like complaining Sputnik was underwhelming because of its size, or penicillin was underwhelming because it was just a bit of fungus. We might as well complain that the first radio, phone, television, cellphone, laser, computer, magnetic data storage medium, robot, etc where all underwhelming because the people that designed them didn't crap out a totally rad product from the start. Ok so maybe this is a little harsh but seriously as far as I can tell you're judging what is the greatest advance in prosthetic technology by how cool it looks.

Actually it was a lot more than I was expecting for a first attempt. I was expecting one of those crappy claws with a fake rubber hand that just opens and closes with one or two pressure sensors to keep you from crushing things. They got a full on articulated had with pressure sensors on each finger tip it looks like. For a prototype that's not even complete to the point of being mobile, i.e. they're still working on it, it is remarkably polished. I mean there is no sense putting skin on something before its ready to leave the lab. I'm sure it'll get decent coverings before it gets out in the world.

[bluestarultor]

Here's an idea. We'll cut off your hand and let you run around with a hook for a few years and then give you one. After that we'll ask you again how underwhelming you think it is. I mean its like complaining Sputnik was underwhelming because of its size, or penicillin was underwhelming because it was just a bit of fungus. We might as well complain that the first radio, phone, television, cellphone, laser, computer, magnetic data storage medium, robot, etc where all underwhelming because the people that designed them didn't crap out a totally rad product from the start. Ok so maybe this is a little harsh but seriously as far as I can tell you're judging what is the greatest advance in prosthetic technology by how cool it looks.

Actually it was a lot more than I was expecting for a first attempt. I was expecting one of those crappy claws with a fake rubber hand that just opens and closes with one or two pressure sensors to keep you from crushing things. They got a full on articulated had with pressure sensors on each finger tip it looks like. For a prototype that's not even complete to the point of being mobile, i.e. they're still working on it, it is remarkably polished. I mean there is no sense putting skin on something before its ready to leave the lab. I'm sure it'll get decent coverings before it gets out in the world.

I'm sure it will. It's just the old addage, "expectations disappoint." I came in expecting what they've been working on in normal robotics, which is to say making it as realistic as possible, and it just wasn't. I mean, it's pretty amazing that they got it to hook up to nerves at all, much less having them not only feel from it, but to actually control the thing, since it's brain-controlled. That's some pretty space-age technology. I just came in with the wrong mindset. :sweatdrop

[Mirai Gen]

Saw this on Brian's twitter - pretty huge landmark, I'm honestly excited to see where this could go.
If they need a prosthetic limb, they already have serious nerve damage. If you're talking about damaging something beyond the already-damaged nerves... I'm not sure the nervous system is really capable of that. It'd be like how getting hit in the shields causes random console explosions in Star Trek - it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. Admitably, I slept through a lot of my neural biology classes, so I may be talking out of my ass, but I don't think you could actually get the kind of feedback that would damage other parts of your body.
I am 99% sure this is correct - there's really no way to cause damage to the brain through nerves that I'm aware of.

Sensation aside, aren't prosthetic limbs already making direct use of the body's nervous system anyway?
Indirect, technically, if you're referring to the physics mechanisms where you reach out to open the clasp.

[Sithdarth]

I came in expecting what they've been working on in normal robotics, which is to say making it as realistic as possible, and it just wasn't.

You do understand what a prototype is right? And like how when something is a prototype its not yet working 100% so you have to be able to get at the insides to fix and adjust things. Generally this entails a degree of lack of covering or crude covering to facilitate repairs. I'm sure the instant the scientists decide its as complete as its going to get without field trials they'll move right on to a skin covering that is as realistic as possible. I guarantee you all those nifty life like robots you see started life as very crude prototypes. The only difference is that nobody cared about them then.

[Krylo]

I hope you can get a no skin version.

Robot hands are awesome.

[bluestarultor]

You do understand what a prototype is right? And like how when something is a prototype its not yet working 100% so you have to be able to get at the insides to fix and adjust things. Generally this entails a degree of lack of covering or crude covering to facilitate repairs. I'm sure the instant the scientists decide its as complete as its going to get without field trials they'll move right on to a skin covering that is as realistic as possible. I guarantee you all those nifty life like robots you see started life as very crude prototypes. The only difference is that nobody cared about them then.

You don't need to get condescending. First off, I went in expecting a final product. Second off, I already explained myself and adjusted my expectations. I'm sorry, but yeah, I had different expectations going in. This thing is an amazing piece of work, and I've said as much, so I really don't see what there is to argue about.

Actually, I'd love to see the programming behind this thing, assuming there is some. It could really be either incredibly complex or deceptively simple depending.

[Sithdarth]

I'm relatively sure any skin covering would be rather like what they have now on those clamps in structure. Hopefully they'll do a better job with texture and such but I imagine it'll be a bit like a glove. Although it'll probably be integral to keeping the thing dry so there it that.

Edit:
You don't need to get condescending. First off, I went in expecting a final product. Second off, I already explained myself and adjusted my expectations. I'm sorry, but yeah, I had different expectations going in. This thing is an amazing piece of work, and I've said as much, so I really don't see what there is to argue about.

I'm sorry about that but I still don't see how you reached your conclusion. For starters this:

first artificial hand that has feeling

Is a big red flag screaming prototype.

Second, you posted after having watched the video and I assume listening to the contents of said video. A video where it seemed fairly clear only one hand exists and that it isn't even one self contained and mobile yet. I don't know maybe you were distracted or something while watching but it seemed like your conclusion wasn't supported by the facts at hand. Maybe I'm just better at keeping an open mind about things. Certainly I get a lot more jazzed about the things something can do than how awesome it looks.

[bluestarultor]

I'm relatively sure any skin covering would be rather like what they have now on those clamps in structure. Hopefully they'll do a better job with texture and such but I imagine it'll be a bit like a glove. Although it'll probably be integral to keeping the thing dry so there it that.

Actually, if you used silicone and a 3D printing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3D_printing) process, you could get an amazing level of detail. Silicone is great because it wears well and can come in a multitude of different flexibilities, and is even hypo-allergenic, which is more than can be said for latex.

Pretty simply, they could give the thing fingerprints if they wanted.

[Archbio]

Do these new prosthetics come with kung fu strangling grips and split personalities?

[Viridis]

Do these new prosthetics come with kung fu strangling grips and split personalities?

I will be supremely disappointed if they don't. Also they should be able to fire lasers.

[krogothwolf]

I am 99% sure this is correct - there's really no way to cause damage to the brain through nerves that I'm aware of.


I'm not really talking about physical damage cause I'm not sure that possible either but I'm talking about mental damage and such.

The PNS, the Peripheral Nervous System is tied directly into the CNS, the Central Nervous System. TBy linking the prothestic arm back into the persons PNS it would mean that it is again tied into the brain which is why it allows to person to feel that limb again. If something were to happen that say cut off the sensation of feeling to that limb again there could be serious ramifications of the backlash to the brain of once again losing the limb. That is what I am talking about. And I wouldn't even want to think of what would happen if you lost the sensation of the feeling but could still see the arm there.

[BitVyper]

You do understand what a prototype is right?

Prototype: More powerful version of the end product with access to secret powers removed from later versions. Typically made use of by angst filled teens.

And with all this talk about feedback...

*Leaps onto the villain with a primal scream and crushes his skull*

Secondary cast: My god.... it's... berserker... *cue Evangelion music*

[Mirai Gen]

If something were to happen that say cut off the sensation of feeling to that limb again there could be serious ramifications of the backlash to the brain of once again losing the limb.
It's called "pain."

[BitVyper]

Yeah, as far as I know, your sensory nerves can't like, hack your brain and make you go crazy beyond sending the signals that cause you to feel pain - which is what this is supposed to do anyway. I could be wrong, but if it IS possible to screw someone up that bad through their nerves, I doubt wiring them into a prosthetic limb is going to be what does it.

It's not like we're changing the nerves themselves. They still are what they are, and can't do anything they couldn't do before.

Also: The thread title is making me want prophetic limb technology.

[Magus]

I wouldn't mind me some of that, though I'm not sure how we'd interface with prophetic limbs. I guess we could do some auto-writing while in a trance, or have the limb doing sign language to tell us about the future.

[Funka Genocide]

I'm not really talking about physical damage cause I'm not sure that possible either but I'm talking about mental damage and such.

The PNS, the Peripheral Nervous System is tied directly into the CNS, the Central Nervous System. TBy linking the prothestic arm back into the persons PNS it would mean that it is again tied into the brain which is why it allows to person to feel that limb again. If something were to happen that say cut off the sensation of feeling to that limb again there could be serious ramifications of the backlash to the brain of once again losing the limb. That is what I am talking about. And I wouldn't even want to think of what would happen if you lost the sensation of the feeling but could still see the arm there.

uh yeah... I'm pretty sure its worse the first time you get your arm chopped off.

Like, the second time it happens you could all ready have a snappy come back, Ie: "You know what happened to the last guy that did that to me?" because nobody expects that after they amputate one of your limbs.

(This is of course assuming that you're a ninja)