Everybody has a problem with: Transformer 2 [Archive]

Bells

07-05-2009, 02:23 AM

Just to pick up (after a cooldown) on the latest of this movie and a probably 3rd movie (you KNOW it's coming.)

My Biggest gripe? Bumblebee doesn't talk. What the hell is up with that? He is back to his radio voice... wut?

Aside from aaaaaaaaall the other points and counter-points you guys can have, i'm mostly talking here about the probably 3rd movie and what to expect from it.

Also, as a "from someone elses eyes" point of view, i offer this:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/escape-to-the-movies/797-Transformers-Revenge

BitVyper

07-05-2009, 09:16 AM

Honestly, if I go to see this is will be pretty much entirely due to the fact that I could listen to Cullen's Optimus all day. I don't like Michael Bay's direction. At all. The more I watch TF1, the more I realise it.

Mirai Gen

07-05-2009, 01:05 PM

My Biggest gripe? Bumblebee doesn't talk. What the hell is up with that? He is back to his radio voice... wut?
I'm not sure if I liked it or not, really.

It would have helped so much to solidify Bee and Sam's relationship, but on the other hand it was a cool feature of his. I feel like Bumblebee is just as teenage and funny as Sam is but if he talked I might either like him more or screw that personality up.

krogothwolf

07-05-2009, 01:14 PM

Bells

07-05-2009, 01:35 PM

They advertise Megatron as a Tank so much... but on screen, you barely see it or notice.

Also, about Megatron, i dunno... maybe he came back with less than 100% of his strenght? And the army guys (although i really like the main army guy) are Ok, once they figured out how to damage the Transformers they seemed to have decided to fully load everybody with just that sort of weaponry.

SubZero

07-05-2009, 02:15 PM

Azisien

07-05-2009, 02:18 PM

I think I'm now one of like three people that thought the movie was awesome?

Honestly, I do think it's a great movie, that they're both great movies. I even rented the blu-ray Transformers 1 to re-watch it last night and make sure I'm not crazy.

I have a theory on why I'm extra drawn to it though. It's not even the Transformers (though they are cool), it's because both movies are essentially an advertisement for the might of the US military. And I've always liked military toys.

Smarty McBarrelpants

07-05-2009, 03:09 PM

I really don't think the US military could take down giant space robots. Just saying.

Mirai Gen

07-05-2009, 04:29 PM

It's not even the Transformers (though they are cool), it's because both movies are essentially an advertisement for the might of the US military.
I've never quite followed this logic.

Hawk

07-05-2009, 04:29 PM

I think I'm now one of like three people that thought the movie was awesome?

So you, me.... who's the other guy??? I thought everything made sense, plot wise, the action was all great, the acting was good enough (there were a few parts where it was just people shouting over each other and it was a bit jumbled, but I suppose IRL not everyone speaks in such clear cut ways that they do in other films/tv shows), and most of the comedy worked.

I really don't get all the hate and complaints, especially all the Bay specific hate. I never honestly knew what other movies he'd worked on before TF, but now I know what else he's done, I've never been dissapointed with his stuff. But whatever, people will complain if they want, doesn't bother me.

Sky Warrior Bob

07-05-2009, 05:14 PM

Theres only a few things I didn't like about it.

All Spark created transformers automatically = evil destructive things, funny but shouldn't they be more like kids or something. Optimus all of the sudden becoming totally badass and kickin the shit outta 3 Decepticons, one being Megatron and only really losing because he stopped to look for sam when in the first one Megatron was pretty much owning him. And how easily humans could kick the shit outta the transformers this time.

That actually got an explanation at the 2007 Botcon. Since all current technology is based off Megatron, the Allspark brings to life evil Transformers.

While I found the movie to be enjoyable for reasons that, I myself can't fathom, I understand the gripe. I mean, one thing that annoys me, is why the Allspark was so important, considering its so easy to make more Transformers via budding (http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Reproduction#Budding) (at least I assume that's what going on in TF2).

Also, why did The Fallen even bother to bring back Megatron anyway? Seems like a waste of time & resources on the Decepticon's part.

Frankly, IMO the problem with the entire movie, is that it is more of a Bay film than the original 2007 flick.

SWB

grthwllms

07-05-2009, 05:29 PM

So you, me.... who's the other guy???

Yo.

There were some parts that could've been better, and some chances for good scenes lost, and both people and robots that didn't need to be there were there, but all in all it was a good movie.

Sky Warrior Bob

07-05-2009, 05:43 PM

There were some parts that could've been better, and some chances for good scenes lost, and both people and robots that didn't need to be there were there, but all in all it was a good movie.

Enjoyable? Yes, but I disagree with the notion minor tweaks could make this movie better. Put simply, I think that Bay is completely incapable of making a good movie.

As I stated in the last thread, this film was like watching a train wreck under the scrutiny of a high speed camera. This might seem like a damning statement, but if you've seen Time Warp (on the Discovery channel), things show on high speed are usually a bit more entertaining to watch then you might think.

SWB

grthwllms

07-05-2009, 06:18 PM

Enjoyable? Yes, but I disagree with the notion minor tweaks could make this movie better. Put simply, I think that Bay is completely incapable of making a good movie.

As I stated in the last thread, this film was like watching a train wreck under the scrutiny of a high speed camera. This might seem like a damning statement, but if you've seen Time Warp (on the Discovery channel), things show on high speed are usually a bit more entertaining to watch then you might think.

SWB

No Twins.

No Scrotum.

More of the Sports car autobot that killed the sports car decepticon at the start.

Less humans.

The movie is now better.

Hawk

07-05-2009, 06:26 PM

I'd agree with that. Although the twins were kinda ok when they fought Devastator.

Not sure what you mean by scrotum. I mean that in the context of the movie, of course... I know what scrotum means.:p

More Sideswipe would have been cool, as well as Jolt. Both those guys were so under-used I thought they were the same character until I read wiki.

Less humans specifically means less parents I think.

And I'd also like to add more Jetfire, he was ace. Espcecially when he came back outta nowhere and axed that one Decepticon and then ripped Scorponok apart, that was the most badass part of the entire movie.

EDIT for below;

The entire robo-cast: The Autobots from the first movie, Megatron, Starscream, The Fallen, Soundwave, Wheelie, Jetfire, The Twins (though maybe with less urban). Maybe introduce a few new 'Cons as bad guys. Bam. Done. Thank you, good night.

Oh come on, Ravage was cool too!

Mirai Gen

07-05-2009, 06:26 PM

Less nameless Transformers

FTFY

This was my hugest problem with the movie.

Hey it's Arcee! And other Female Autobots! I only know that because I'm a fucking gigantic Transformers nerd. And...is that Blackout? I thought he died in the last movie? And...who's that guy? What the fuck, who are all these Decepticons?

The entire robo-cast: The Autobots from the first movie, Megatron, Starscream, The Fallen, Soundwave, Wheelie, Jetfire, The Twins (though maybe with less urban). Maybe introduce a few new 'Cons as bad guys. Bam. Done. Thank you, good night.

Sky Warrior Bob

07-05-2009, 07:50 PM

No Twins.

No Scrotum.

More of the Sports car autobot that killed the sports car decepticon at the start.

Less humans.

The movie is now better.

You cut out the twins, and you cut out at least 1/3rd of the movie (if not more). I didn't like their design/personality (which verges on being openly racist), or their pointless Ice Cream truck mode, but you take them entirely, without putting something in their place & the movie falls apart.

And I hardly want to hear any more of that sports cart Autobot brag about being so great. Once was more than enough.

If the scrotum you're talking about is Devastor's, then I really don't see any problem. It was a cheap ass joke, and its practically band-aid territory compared to the rest of the flick's issues.

Besides, the movie is already written, produced & showing in theaters. You can't play What If?. Plain & simple, this is the movie Bay chose to make. It is what it is.

Again, I'm not saying that the movie isn't enjoyable, but we differ in opinion on what qualifies as a good movie. (No, it doesn't reach that bar for me.)

SWB

Jagos

07-05-2009, 09:02 PM

Theres only a few things I didn't like about it.

All Spark created transformers automatically = evil destructive things, funny but shouldn't they be more like kids or something. Optimus all of the sudden becoming totally badass and kickin the shit outta 3 Decepticons, one being Megatron and only really losing because he stopped to look for sam when in the first one Megatron was pretty much owning him. And how easily humans could kick the shit outta the transformers this time.

But it was an enjoyable blow crap up movie. But they fluffed it up with way to many transformers as well.

1 got answered. 2) Optimus seems to have gotten stronger AND the Decepticons have gotten weaker. Mainly because the Decepticons run on Energon which is the entire reason they want to level the planet

3) The humans have stronger weapons. And of course, even though they had overwhelming numbers, they still can't get the job done because, well... They're the bad guys. They have to lose.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/escape-to-the-movies/797-Transformers-Revenge

Wow, the Game Overthinker has a new job...

Marc v1.0

07-06-2009, 04:46 AM

Did you ever consider the fact that in the first movie, Optimus was fighting Megatron in a densely populated city where he couldn't take two steps without accidentally squashing an innocent bystander, as opposed to a forest completely devoid of human life where Optimus didn't have to hold back for fear of harming anyone and/or buildings full of people?

THIS. Obvious.

Also, I found it awesome, the second time around was even better cause It was less of a sense-rush. The forest fight was a hell of a lot better when I wasn't trying to look at everything all at once.

Fifthfiend

07-06-2009, 04:52 AM

What's amazing is Pirates of the Carribean comes from a shitty 50 year old amusement park ride and still manages to ace the TF movies in every conceivable way while still delivering requisite quantities of dudes gettin' stabbed and shit blowing up.

Hawk

07-06-2009, 05:28 AM

While that is true Fifth, I feel I must point out the obvious; that the glaring lack of giant robots wrecking shit up severely lets those movies down.

Jagos

07-06-2009, 08:05 AM

Well that and the fact that Devastator was relegated to the background in his one debut.

I wanted him to kill ONE Autobot. Is that too much to ask?

Ryong

07-06-2009, 10:27 AM

My complaints:

- Goddamnit, we need more of Sideswipe and Jolt.
- Less twins.

Solution: Get rid of the twins and give their job to Sideswipe and Jolt.

The action scenes were much easier to understand than on the first...And geez, Ratchet appeared in one scene? That's it? And where the hell is Barricade!? More Jetfire would also be good!

Kerensky287

07-06-2009, 03:23 PM

Solution: Get rid of the twins and give their job to Sideswipe and Jolt.

Better solution, GET RID of the job altogether and just spend any time that would've been spent on ZANY CGI SQUABBLING instead on character development/awesomeness from Sideswipe and Jolt.

I mean, Sideswipe cut some jerk in half, got hit in the face with a rocket which made him ANGRY, and... well, the toy is pretty fun to transform.

My main disappointment with the movie was that Soundwave didn't do anything. They showed him kinda floating in space, and then they had a scene where he fires the cat thing to Earth, and then he takes over a satellite. Then they show the same footage of him floating in space again. My problems with this are that 1) He is not a badass tape recorder with what looks like a shoulder-mounted rocket launcher and a ton of mini transformers that rip shit to shreads and 2) It was boring.

EDIT: I only highlighted the bad parts of the movie. I have to say, Mudflap and Skids were not NEARLY as bad as they could've been. At least they never started singing or dancing - they're exactly the kinds of characters who strike me as prone to "I like to move it, move it."

krogothwolf

07-06-2009, 03:50 PM

They didn't want to do Size Morphing for the movies because get this, It wasn't realistic Enough. So he was a satellite instead.

Mirai Gen

07-06-2009, 06:36 PM

Technically he just hijacked a satellite. Which, for Soundwave, was much more awesome.

Throw in a few minutes of dialog between Megs and Soundwave and bam, you're golden for him.

Hawk

07-06-2009, 07:05 PM

Yeah, really the only thing that could've made Soundwave any more badass would have been if he'd like, I duno, Ion Cannoned the shit outta something. But alas, he didn't.

Maybe next movie eh?

stefan

07-06-2009, 07:21 PM

I'm kind of rooting for Shockwave in the next movie, really. also, dinobots.

Mirai Gen

07-06-2009, 07:23 PM

also, dinobots.
.

stefan

07-06-2009, 08:54 PM

.

what. grimlock makes everything better.

Nique

07-06-2009, 09:00 PM

Dinobots eh? Well, they may as well just bring back Beast Wars.

Bells

07-06-2009, 09:55 PM

Dinobots eh? Well, they may as well just bring back Beast Wars.

Which they might on the next film...

Mirai Gen

07-06-2009, 09:55 PM

It would be awful.

But yeah Dinobots, I want them which is why I quoted you and then "."

bananarama

07-06-2009, 09:56 PM

I didn't watch the movie, but one question: is this summary (or faq thingy) (http://www.toplessrobot.com/2009/06/bonus_robs_transformers_2_faqs.php?page=1) basically true? If so, then I am not planning to in the near future...

Bells

07-06-2009, 10:03 PM

Yeah, really the only thing that could've made Soundwave any more badass would have been if he'd like, I duno, Ion Cannoned the shit outta something. But alas, he didn't.

The only thing they could've done would be to Turn Soundwave into an Orbital Death Ray.

Also... what was his final faith in the movie again..!?

It would be awful.

Think about it! Decepticons find a new source of energy, but, somehow it forces them to crashland on Zoo and Museums of natural history.

The Autobots can't hold them back now, not even Clusterfuck Prime (that's the Nickname i gave Optimus after he fused with Jetfire). That's when a museum Exbhit get's semi destroyed and what'd you know? It's an Ark! Filled with Old Autobots that came to earth ages ago following the Fallen but were shut down in re-entry! And with them... OPTIMUS PRIMAL!

You got to admit, it's at least as stupid as the current 200k worth Transformers 2

Mirai Gen

07-06-2009, 10:08 PM

Think about it!
I did.

It would be awful.

Azisien

07-07-2009, 12:29 AM

I've never quite followed this logic.

What's not to follow?

So you, me.... who's the other guy??? I thought everything made sense, plot wise, the action was all great, the acting was good enough (there were a few parts where it was just people shouting over each other and it was a bit jumbled, but I suppose IRL not everyone speaks in such clear cut ways that they do in other films/tv shows), and most of the comedy worked.

I really don't get all the hate and complaints, especially all the Bay specific hate. I never honestly knew what other movies he'd worked on before TF, but now I know what else he's done, I've never been dissapointed with his stuff. But whatever, people will complain if they want, doesn't bother me.

The guy I saw it with originally also liked it a lot. I actually have a second friend who liked it too so we're up to four now and getting stronger by the day. I imagine by 2010 we'll have at least twelve guys liking it.

Toast

07-07-2009, 10:43 AM

I was really kind of torn up by this movie because it was filled with equal parts awesome and suckage.

Things we didn't really need to see or spend time on:
About half the college scenes, including the transforming nymphomaniac
John Turturro's tighty whiteys
That other guy with his pants around his ankles.
The twins roles could have been minimized with no real loss

Things they should have spent more time on:
giant robots fighting each other
military fighting giant robots
more autobots. Not counting the action packed lead in, how far into the movie is it before we see an autobot other than Prime and Bumblebee?

I was also really disappointed that John Voight and Rachael Taylor didn't make return appearances, but Glenn Morshower, who died in the first movie, did as a different character.

As always, better characterization of all of the transformers would have been nice. Also, I'm kind of tired of sequels interjecting relationship problems into couples who got together at the end of the first movie just so they can get together at the end of the second too. And what was up with Sam and Mikaela holding hands while they were running everywhere?

Also, was it just me or could the use of stock video for a lot of the airplane scenes towards the end fight get any more obvious and badly done? I mean, first we see the same shot of a jet propelled UAV that they used in the first movie and called a Predator (the predator is propellor driven) and then they show a shot of another propeller driven UAV, but its a Reaper, not a Predator. Then we see F/A-18 Super Hornets taking off from an aircraft carrier, F-16s letting out flares for no reason and banking, and a few other shots as well. I think only the F-22s were actually shot for the movie, and maybe the A-10s, but they were just a flyby which is a total misuse of such an awesome (and contextually effective) aircraft. I mean, the A-10 was designed for the close air support role, which is exactly the situation they were in.

Hawk

07-07-2009, 10:53 AM

The guy I saw it with originally also liked it a lot. I actually have a second friend who liked it too so we're up to four now and getting stronger by the day. I imagine by 2010 we'll have at least twelve guys liking it.

Well, I know another guy who liked it too, and there's also a girl I know who's going to see it tomorrow. I'm pretty sure she's gona like it. So our numbers are growing.

Mirai Gen

07-07-2009, 11:42 AM

What's not to follow?
The idea that somehow Transformers 1 or 2 promotes military recruitment seems ultimately retarded, much in the same way any first person shooter ever that involves the military promotes the same thing.

It's just that any time there's main characters you like who are military men, bam, army recruitment.

Bells

07-07-2009, 11:55 AM

The idea that somehow Transformers 1 or 2 promotes military recruitment seems ultimately retarded, much in the same way any first person shooter ever that involves the military promotes the same thing.

Except for America's Army 1,2 and 3 right?!

Although to be honest i didn't see their complaint's as "Military Recruitment" but more like Military Glorification.

i mean, i can make sense of someone telling Bay "How are you going to explain having all this shit happening and no influence at all of the military force?" So since they couldn't excuse the Military out of the plot, they decided to give it a Front-center part.

Also, might be worth to note it that if the military were useless, non-glorified AND dumb in the movie, people would claim that Michael Bay would be doing an "Artistic protest" against the USA Military....

Meister

07-07-2009, 12:11 PM

Also, might be worth to note it that if the military were useless, non-glorified AND dumb in the movie, people would claim that Michael Bay would be doing an "Artistic protest" against the USA Military....
If the plot didn't have so many glaring holes and the characters weren't defined exclusively by one-liners and slapstick, people would claim Michael Bay had made an entertaining, but still intelligent action movie, but they don't and he didn't.

(I'm going purely by reviews but come to think of it, it holds true for the first one, too.)

Agree on the general point that there's a difference between glorification and recruitment material, though, even if the desired outcome still is "teenagers thinking the military is the shit" in both cases.

krogothwolf

07-07-2009, 12:21 PM

The best part about all that is they always have military servicemen defying orders in these movies so its "the military is the shit and you can ignore orders when they don't suit you"

Mirai Gen

07-07-2009, 09:44 PM

Agree on the general point that there's a difference between glorification and recruitment material, though, even if the desired outcome still is "teenagers thinking the military is the shit" in both cases.

I'd argue that it's less glorification of military and more focus on heroic protagonists (Mr. Black Military Guy and Mr. White Military Guy), but I can see it either way.

I mean if you think about it the military more often than not ends up being an antagonist (Shutting down NEST) whereas the recognizable recurring characters and the Autobot human teammates are actually doing things right (Aiding the Autobots and Sam).

Jagos

07-07-2009, 09:56 PM

That was less the military and more the big G-man.

Azisien

07-08-2009, 12:27 AM

I think my statement of "military advertisement" was taken the wrong way, which is partly my fault. I meant it more as stunning the wily-eyed in the audience like me with all the awesome toys the US military has. I didn't really meant it in terms of bolstering recruitment. Pretty sure someone would get beat up for signing a "Why do you want to join the Army?" line with "TRANSFORMERS 2 YO!!!"

Damn, all those hate-mongering is just making me want to see it again.

Mirai Gen

07-08-2009, 07:42 AM

Even still I heard the same criticisms of the first one, and it was equally retarded then.

grthwllms

07-08-2009, 09:41 AM

I don't like how they specifically say the Jordanians are showing up only to have the two helicopters they send instantly get blown up without doing a damned thing.

Then the Americans show up and the Decepticons become retardicons.

Azisien

07-08-2009, 01:16 PM

Is probably on par with what would happen, while simultaneously supporting my point. :p

I was having a discussion with my friend about the movie last night and we finally came to a consensus that sure, it's a terrible movie, but it doesn't mind being terrible. In fact, it tried to be terrible. The robots aren't there to act, they're there to look at. Megan Fox wasn't hired as an actress, she was also there to look at. Slapstick comedy is thrown in at variable places to supplement the parts between things blowing up, but it is ultimately a fireworks show. Transformers 2 doesn't care about winning an Academy Award for Best Original Screenplay, though it may be up for Best Holy Shit My Thalamus The Pain. Transformers 2 is the embodiment of the Graphics vs. Plot debate often found in video games. Of course, most people prefer a plot, but there's that minority that doesn't mind sitting back and watching a fireworks show despite the stupidities inherent. I mean, I'd start cutting myself if every movie was Transformers 2 and delivered only this, but it's not and it comes once every 2-3 years.

We also considered for a while the theory that it's the ultimate male fulfillment movie, and I'd say that has at least moderate support. I've talked to quite a few women about the movie and they just generally seem less amused by it than their male counterparts (p<0.05).

Public Enemies was sooooo not as entertaining as this movie. Unless you have, like, posters of Johnny Depp on your wall or hidden in your bedside drawer.