Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen

[Bells]

From Variety.com:
http://www.variety.com/review/VE1117940483.html?categoryid=31&cs=1

With machines that are impressively more lifelike, and characters that are more and more like machines, "Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen" takes the franchise to a vastly superior level of artificial intelligence. As for human intelligence, it's primarily at the service of an enhanced arsenal of special effects, which helmer Michael Bay deploys like a general launching his very own shock-and-awe campaign on the senses. Otherwise, little seems new compared to the first installment, except that this version is longer, louder, and perhaps "more than your eye can meet" in one sitting. It will reap similar B.O. rewards worldwide.

From IGN.com:
http://movies.ign.com/articles/994/994427p1.html

The biggest movie of the summer is finally here, but that's the problem with Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen - it's just too bloody big. Epic, spectacular but unfortunately far, far too long; the film proves that when it comes to Michael Bay blockbuster movies, you can have too much of a good thing.

http://moviesmedia.ign.com/movies/image/article/994/994427/transformers-revenge-of-the-fallen-uk-review-do-not-publish-20090612023353069.jpg

The movie is out and it's over 2 hours long. Seems Ridiculous and Volatile. I WANT TO SEE IT NAO!!

So, add to the pile here folks, any one got a change to see it yet?

[Archbio]

I'm going to refrain making comments about "mechanical characters", "Michael Bay", that "artificial intelligence" comment and others like it that seem to have been meant as compliments but really seem like the set up for a appropriate cracks at cinematic shit merchants' expense.

I'm just going to ask: were they able to achieve the colossal intellectual endeavor of fitting an explanation for why a robot would be pink into a feature lenght movie this time?

[Smarty McBarrelpants]

I will repeat the comments of the article- why is it so long?
I mean this is a Micheal Bay movie- it is not going to be a searching probe of the human condition that needs to be that long. It is going to be 95% explosions and gunfire which would be trivial to cut down to length.

[Meister]

Gotta have those scenes of ancient extraterrestrial machine beings hiding in suburbs and peeing on people.

e: even apart from the "ancient machine beings" part of it, until just now I don't think it ever really occurred to me how pants-shittingly retarded it was to have Transformers hide somewhere in their robot form.

[Lumenskir]

The dumbest franchise ever conceived just got a little dumber.
Gotta love the A.V. Club for boiling it down for me.

They do say that the last thirty minutes are what everybody expects (no human characters and a shitlot of explosions) so I might go and see Moon or something else decent and then sneak in for the finale.

[Hawk]

Saw it on friday. Yes, it's long. Yes there are some unnecesary bits that could've been trimmed, but it's mostly the human "comedy" elements. All of the action scenes are awesome and are perfectly lengthy.

A lot (read; most) of the new characters don't get much exposition, other than, "hey yeah, these guys are our new Autobot team. They'll kick some ass later on," and no, they don't explain the pink female bike bots either. But they don't really need to; this movie is all about massive action scenes with dozens, yes, dozens of mechs. It's literally a full blown robot war later on.

My suggestion, watch it with friends and just enjoy the fighting.

[Mirai Gen]

Going to see it this week. Probably will enjoy it in the exact same I did the first movie.

e: even apart from the "ancient machine beings" part of it, until just now I don't think it ever really occurred to me how pants-shittingly retarded it was to have Transformers hide somewhere in their robot form.
In the movie's defense, they did transform, and Sam got all upset.

[Magus]

Yeah, he said something like, "this isn't a car lot" or something like that. Which still didn't really make much sense because let's face it a yard full of random vehicles is still easier to explain than a yard filled with robots.

While I know the new movie suffers from six kajillion explosions, did they at least do away with the retarded logic holes/explanations and the fucking product placement (outside of cars, since that was at least logical)? Is there anything as stupid as the Mountain Dew vending machine turning into a robot (that shoots Mountain Dew cans)?

I mean, the first movie wasn't really good by any means but it felt like Michael Bay wanted to torture me at points so I'd really like actually hate it instead of just feel okay about it.

[Kaneda]

What I'm curious about is if there's anything about it that really makes it any worse than the first movie? It's getting worse reviews, but it seems to be pretty much the same as the first, just bigger.

[Bells]

The only thing i found bad about hte first movie was that they screwed up a couple of basic concepts that didn't need to get screwed up.

First was the way the robots looked. It was like they looked at the Vehicles and didn't knew how to make a robot out of it. But since Bumblebee brought the fact that they could change their car forms at any time, i was REALLY hoping that during this move somewhere Optimus would get severely damaged and would be forced to change to a Red Fire Truck to keep on fighting.

The other thing was the "Everything is a deadly robot!" They turned Sci-Fi into Harry potter with their "Megatron Magic laser that turns a cellphone into a Robot with killing stincts and a machine gun"... i mean, really? Nobody thought of that as... "nonsense"?

Other than that, They were fun movies. If you can enjoy Die Hard you can't possibly complain about Transformers. They are in the same league.

[Wigmund]

The movie is too damn long, too damn many explosions, too much Michael Bay, too much humans, too much racist stereotype comic relief (oh god how's that gonna play out), too many over-fucking-detailed robots in close-quarters combat, too much love story, too much bullshit.

If the movie was an hour shorter (with fewer unneeded characters), they would have had the same amount of 'story' and everyone's bladder would have been better off.

About the only good thing I can say about the movie is that it would have been a better video game.

[Marc v1.0]

I mean, the first movie wasn't really good by any means


While that's certainly your opinion, I disagree that the first movie was a good film with some flaws (they all have them) but 'wasn't really good by any measure' is a bit of an exaggeration.

Just got back from the midnight show. It certainly played out much better then the first movie, to me, because they didn't have to deal with all the "getting there" stuff. The Bots didn't have more screen time then the Humans, but they did have at least equal time, which was good(I don't really count Sam time, because even in the original show Spike was a big part of most of the stories, the human connection). There was plenty of good metal-on-metal fist fights and shootouts, that final battle at the end of the last act was full of action and tense moments and on-your-seatness. Better then the first, and I might go see it again.

oh, the movie was a bit longer then 2 hours, I think. Close to three, it started at about 12:5 and ended at 2:43. I didn't see any pacing problems, or at any time feel like I was dropping out of the 'action', and it didn't really seem like it took that long

[Meister]

In the movie's defense, they did transform
Come to think of it, they did.

That's where the "millennia old machine beings" part comes in, though - I'd have expected them to be a lot smarter about it.

[The Wandering God]

I just got back from seeing it. I'm having trouble forming coherent thoughts about it, but I did have fun.

I honestly don't see the comparison I keep seeing between Jar Jar Binks and the autobot twins. Jar Jar was annoying because he was annoyingly goofy and inept. The twins were like two stupid overly masculine brothers who want to pick fights all the time, and if no one else is around, with each other. I didn't have that big a problem with them and they certainly weren't offensive.

My biggest problem with the movie was remembering which robots were named what. Then again, I thought the first movie had that problem too, so there ya go.

The second biggest was that Sam had something (that thing you see fall in the trailer) in his jacket for 2 YEARS and didn't find it until the start of the movie. Aside from that, the plot made about as much sense and had as much feasibility as the first. EDIT: Actually, thinking about it some more, I find it takes a bit of a leap of faith to believe spoiler they haven't said "I love you" to each other yet." I get the feeling the original draft was supposed be something like 6 months later and they just forgot that adding on an extra year and half makes some points rather ridiculous. Like the autobots and decepticons still being a secret for that long. I'm just going to pretend that this movie takes place 6 months later instead.

What I did like, though, was that there were fewer human characters introduced, and the ones they do have all make sense in the setting of the story.

The story never really dragged (except when Sam is trying to settle into college), and the fights weren't as zoomed in as they were in the first. I didn't think the movie was overly long and there certainly weren't great stretches that needed to be cut.

I'd rate it 7/10. If you liked the first one, you'll like this one. (Probably.)

The Wandering God

[Azisien]

Well um...

I saw it in IMAX this morning. I thought it was great. Really fun. Thought they even worked out some of the weaker points of the first movie. Definitely better than the first movie, but then I actually didn't mind the first movie either.

I'd see it again, but maybe after a week. Michael Bay forces you to indulge in way too much sensory information than a human being can tolerate comfortably on a daily basis.

[Doc ock rokc]

OK Here is Doc's No spoiler but badly written review.
Upsides are that

We have more autobots!
More screen time for the Non organics
We figured out that humans are not defenseless
Less Gaping plot holes!

Downsides

although there is more Robots, You don't get a introduction to any of the new ones excepting Ironhide (who had about 20 min of screen time)
We still have at least half of the screen time captured by some stupid human moments added for little kids (even though you wouldn't want to bring little kids to this)
Its kind of stupid to hide super secret defense technology when YOUR IN A FUCKING CRISIS!
the gaping plots hole makes no since (including the disappearance of all the other autobots that came with PRIME!!)


The movie is much better then the original. the Super Stupidity moments for humans kicks in every once and a while and there was some poorly but cleverly placed Product placement. But Starscream was acted Beautifully. The reason the plot revolved around the humans actually worked out because of some plot points. but they sometimes dropped some of them for dramatic effect. But in my opinion (And no it doesnt have to much of a spoiler but just in case) The villain was taken out way to easily AGAIN! I mean it was great to finally kill the fucker but he really didn't do anything he just had a threat and that was it! but other then that the movie is BARELY worth the money i payed for it

[Marc v1.0]

(including the disappearance of all the other autobots that came with PRIME!!)



...They were there. Ironhide, Bumblebee, and Rachet. All there. (I assume you mean the disappearance of the ones from the first movie, but they were all there)

The villain was taken out way to easily AGAIN! I mean it was great to finally kill the fucker but he really didn't do anything he just had a threat and that was it! but other then that the movie is BARELY worth the money i payed for it

I find that if you take into account what Jetfire says about needing Energon to keep going, and the longer you go without a good supply the more toll it takes on you(he was randomly losing pieces just moving around) and then add the scene on the Deceptacon ship where they showed the Fallen hooked up to what looked like and could be assumed to be power cables...maybe he just didn't have the juice left to put up much of a fight against Super-Prime after he did all that space-bridge jumping around to get the Matrix.

[Bells]

Aww and here we go....

Harmless comic characters or racist robots? The buzz over the summer blockbuster "Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen" only grew Wednesday as some said two jive-talking Chevy characters were racial caricatures. Skids and Mudflap, twin robots disguised as compact hatchbacks, constantly brawl and bicker in rap-inspired street slang. They're forced to acknowledge that they can't read. One has a gold tooth.

As good guys, they fight alongside the Autobots and are intended to provide comic relief. But their traits raise the specter of stereotypes most notably seen when Jar Jar Binks, the clumsy, broken-English speaking alien from "Star Wars:Episode I -- The Phantom Menace," was criticized as a caricature.
One fan called the Transformers twins "Jar Jar Bots" in a blog post online.

Todd Herrold, who watched the movie in New York City, called the characters "outrageous."

"It's one thing when robot cars are racial stereotypes," he said, "but the movie also had a bucktoothed black guy who is briefly in one scene who's also a stereotype."

"They're like the fools," said 18-year-old Nicholas Govede, also of New York City. "The comic relief in a degrading way."

Not all fans were offended. Twin brothers Jason and William Garcia, 18, who saw the movie in Miami, said they related to the characters -- not their illiteracy, but their bickering.

"They were hilarious," Jason said. "Every movie has their standout character, and I think they were the ones for this movie."

In Atlanta, Rico Lawson said people were reading too much into the characters. "It was actually funny," said Lawson, 25, who saw the movie with his girlfriend in Atlanta.

That was the aim, director Michael Bay said in an interview.

"It's done in fun," he said. "I don't know if it's stereotypes -- they are robots, by the way. These are the voice actors. This is kind of the direction they were taking the characters and we went with it."

Bay said the twins' parts "were kind of written but not really written, so the voice actors is when we started to really kind of come up with their characters."

Actor Reno Wilson, who is black, voices Mudflap. Tom Kenny, the white actor behind SpongeBob SquarePants, voices Skids.

Wilson said Wednesday that he never imagined viewers might consider the twins to be racial caricatures. When he took the role, he was told that the alien robots learned about human culture through the Web and that the twins were "wannabe gangster types."

More here
http://www.mail.com/Article.aspx?articlepath=APNews\General-Entertainment\20090625\US-Film-Transformers-Jar-Jar-Again.xml&cat=entertainment&subcat=&pageid=1

Watchout for more Missplaced Nerdrage about racial space robots!

[Fifthfiend]

Harmless comic characters or racist robots? The buzz over the summer blockbuster "Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen" only grew Wednesday as some said two jive-talking Chevy characters were racial caricatures. Skids and Mudflap, twin robots disguised as compact hatchbacks, constantly brawl and bicker in rap-inspired street slang. They're forced to acknowledge that they can't read. One has a gold tooth.

http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt148/fifthfiend/emoticons/ermm.png

That's um... actually pretty bad.

[Meister]

http://io9.com/5301898/michael-bay-finally-made-an-art-movie

This film review just made my brain shit itself

[Marc v1.0]

the Twins actually came off to me, not as caricatures of urban culture, but as the two White Dudes who are Trying So Hard To Be Black It's Funny(TSHTBBIF). No self-respecting afro-american male I know would ever act like that, but I could name 5 whites guys TSHTBBIF for each finger on both my hands.

Drama aside, they were funny, and affor-mentioned self-respecting afro-american males thought so too. Stinks of pc-Drama to me

[Unprodigy]

Damnit Meister! I was gonna post that review. Well played, sir.

Incidentally, I agree with every word of it, having just come from seeing the movie. At least I think I do. Strangely I recall nothing of the film itself, only the peripheral experince gained from witnessing it.

[Melfice]

You don't get a introduction to any of the new ones excepting Ironhide (who had about 20 min of screen time)

What?
Ironhide? He was in the first one too, y'know?

[Lumenskir]

the Twins actually came off to me, not as caricatures of urban culture, but as the two White Dudes who are Trying So Hard To Be Black It's Funny(TSHTBBIF). No self-respecting afro-american male I know would ever act like that, but I could name 5 whites guys TSHTBBIF for each finger on both my hands.

Drama aside, they were funny, and affor-mentioned self-respecting afro-american males thought so too. Stinks of pc-Drama to me
I'm just taking a stab here, but did you find the PSP squirrels funny as well?

[Token]

Is there anything as stupid as the Mountain Dew vending machine turning into a robot (that shoots Mountain Dew cans)?


You shut your goddamn whore mouth about Dispensor. He made that goddamn movie.

I was of the impression that the twins were supposed to be wiggers. O_o

So, I'm seeing it tonight, and I just need to know: did they reconcile the blatant fuckups to cannon from what The Fallen told Megatron?

[Azisien]

Harmless comic characters or racist robots? The buzz over the summer blockbuster "Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen" only grew Wednesday as some said two jive-talking Chevy characters were racial caricatures. Skids and Mudflap, twin robots disguised as compact hatchbacks, constantly brawl and bicker in rap-inspired street slang. They're forced to acknowledge that they can't read. One has a gold tooth.

I guess I can spoiler this all: Only one character in the movie was able to read the language they're referring to. If anything was racially offensive in the movie it was probably the black meat slicer guy protrayed in the deli scene (missing teeth, and just in every way portrayed as mentally retarded while blindly taking orders from one of the main support characters for fear of not getting fed/paid/whatever). Skids and Mudflap, I see human versions of them every second day at work. And sometimes, I just wish they would get sucked into a giant construction bot dragon...

[Marc v1.0]

I'm just taking a stab here, but did you find the PSP squirrels funny as well?

Not really, no. They had moments, but were generally just annoying, as most people of the classification I presented are. Really, the idea that all ill-educated urban-slang speaking characters HAVE to be BLACK is much more offensive and racist. We all know our share of stupid people who talk slang shit and could be any race.

I was of the impression that the twins were supposed to be wiggers. O_o

and yeah, I could have just said "wiggers" to be done with it. That's what they came off as..and goblins, too..think it was their heads that made me think goblins...

[Azisien]

Something I realized immediately during viewing but forgot to mention:

Sooo the United States has a destroyer with a rail gun on it. Why didn't they just shoot the Energon Doom device? Barring that, why didn't they just shoot Megatron or the Fallen, and make the final battle even shorter? Oh right, dramatic effect.

[Marc v1.0]

Something I realized immediately during viewing but forgot to mention:

Sooo the United States has a destroyer with a rail gun on it. Why didn't they just shoot the Energon Doom device? Barring that, why didn't they just shoot Megatron or the Fallen, and make the final battle even shorter? Oh right, dramatic effect.

Well, it was big and experimental, maybe it had to cool down or something after they used it the first time. Yes, I think about things like that all the time, I'm a great movie goer, I fill in my own explainations to things they don't cover constantly

[Unprodigy]

Well, it was big and experimental, maybe it had to cool down or something after they used it the first time. Yes, I think about things like that all the time, I'm a great movie goer, I fill in my own explainations to things they don't cover constantly
Simpler explanation: It's bad enough them shooting at something right on top of the pyramid actively pulling it apart. They shoot the pyramid itself, for any reason, there's bound to be an international stink about it. That kind of shit needs an executive order to bring down.

[G.I.R.]

Aside from that, Megatron or The Fallen at that point were highly mobile and it doesn't seem to me like the Rail Gun was meant to hit a moving target. And since it was a somewhat immediate need, they shot Devastator with it.

Edit: and at the point that The Fallen and Megatron were on top of the pyramid, there was no one to spot for the Rail Gun, so it would have been blind firing.

[Nique]

The robot parts were good, the people parts were not. Except for the twins. They sucked. I don't really care if they were supposed to be whatever or are offensive or what, they were irritating, especially because they did almost nothing to help in any situation in the film. It was more like they filmed the movie and said, hey, you know what Sam needs is a couple more robots following him around, and then just spliced in the CG.

EDIT: Also, the movie's initials need an l at the end.

Transformers: ROTFL

[Sky Warrior Bob]

Okay, see that picture below? That's how I'd start this post if I wasn't a faithful agnostic (that's a joke son).

Anyway, make no bones about it, this film is more a Bay film than the first Transformers movie he directed. Despite this, I think I enjoyed it, but I might just be too traumatized from the viewing experience to really know anymore.

But for the life of me, I can't tell you a single reason why. I can go on about how the character of The Fallen was pretty much useless, and could have easily been cut from the script. I could question why the Decepticons wanted the Allspark so badly, considering this entire movie makes it clear they didn't need the damn thing anyway.

I won't of course, because I'm tired & want to go to bed, but also because I just don't feel like it. Again, I think I liked this movie, but I can't think of one single reason why.

SWB

[Arhra]

I don't quite see how the Deer God comes into this?

Heh, I'm still not sure whether I'll be going to see this or not. I have to admit that review is making it sound tempting.

Plus, you know, low expectations will leave more time for "WHEEE! GIANT ROBOTS!"

[GARUD]

I liked this movie. It was one of the few movies I've watched where the whole movie cinema ends up laughing at something. To me, the plot was a little thin, but to see Optimus prime kick so much ass was something I'm glad I have witnessed.

One thing I want to know is how Optimus can be a descendant of something. I mean, I don't think transformers have quite the parts to make new ones like an animal. Sure, we saw the eggs of hatchlings, but still, we didn't know anything about how it works. Do these things grow or something?

[Azisien]

I was thinking about it:

Sure, these two movies are pretty ragged plots. But honestly, the source material? Atrocious. Sorry resident Transformers fans, but I think the only show it's up on is maybe original Power Rangers.

Once shone in that light, it at least lowers your 'bar' for viewing the movie. Plus you could probably know nothing about Transformers and still have fun (and possibly overload your thalamus!).

I think I'll go see it again on Sunday.

Also:

Aside from that, Megatron or The Fallen at that point were highly mobile and it doesn't seem to me like the Rail Gun was meant to hit a moving target. And since it was a somewhat immediate need, they shot Devastator with it.

Edit: and at the point that The Fallen and Megatron were on top of the pyramid, there was no one to spot for the Rail Gun, so it would have been blind firing.

To this I say: Bollocks! They would know where they shot the first time, they have the highest tech in the god damn world on their side available for recon to tell them hey aim like twenty feet to the left this time. Politics? Politics?! International stink??! Hm the Earth is about to be destroyed, I best not sacrifice one pyramid that has already been heavily damaged by giant robots! This could hurt our chances of re-election! It is fun to debate, but there's really no need for explanation. The pieces were set the way they were to make Bay's idea of a story sequence flow the way he saw fit. Most movie plots of this stature can be entirely invalidated or solved by dropping a 10MT warhead on X location.

[Melfice]

It's like I said about the first film.
As long as you realize this isn't the Transformers you grew up with, and treat this like it's a movie about giant robots that change into various vehicles that happens to be called Transformers, you're in for a good movie.

As soon as you hang it up next to the old cartoon, you're going to hate it. Or, at the very least, be extremely neutral about it.

[Sky Warrior Bob]

Sure, these two movies are pretty ragged plots. But honestly, the source material? Atrocious. Sorry resident Transformers fans, but I think the only show it's up on is maybe original Power Rangers.

You words, they wound me. Look, I'm not going to say that the original source material was brilliant by any means, but comparing it to Power Rangers? That's low.

I mean, the Transformers cartoon might share the tried & true method of having an established group of heros & having them thwart some problem of the week. However, I'd like to point out shows like Stargate: SG1 also use the same principle.

And beyond that, you really can't put the entire blame on the source material. Transformers: Beast Wars & Transformers: Animated might have been kid shows, but they put together plots that made way more sense than this movie.

I mean, I overall did enjoy this thing (well not enough to merit a 2nd viewing, and I don't feel too inclined to get the DVD at the moment), but I disagree with your conclusion. If they can make good movies out of a board game (Clue!) & a theme ride (Pirates of the Caribbean) , then source material doesn't count for squat.

Again, I put the nature of this movie entirely on Bay. And while I somewhat enjoyed this flick, honestly I would have loved seeing TF2 taken over by another director. Any director.

Because in the final equation, Bay can't make good movies. At best, he can make train wrecks that are fun to watch in the high speed camera.

SWB

[Azisien]

I am almost in awe at how eloquently train wrecks on a high speed camera actually describes all of the action sequences in both movies. I guess I just like train wrecks. I still wouldn't say source material means nothing at all though. Your expectations set before a movie mean a lot on how you'll receive, because there is no 'objective' viewing of it. If, and let's just take a trip down nightmare lane for a moment, Michael Bay signed on to do a multi-million dollar Power Rangers movie, I could safely say "Well, even though I had that kid stint where I liked it, that show is just painful" and I wouldn't think much of it. Alternatively if there was an Avatar: TLA movie *tear*, which I'm a big fan of and hold in high regard, I automatically hold the movie up to a really high standard. Taking both cases together, I'd be more likely to be impressed by the Power Rangers movie if they just threw money at the special effects budget (and Bay would), whereas it would be hard to impress me with the Avatar movie.

And in all honesty my critique of the second movie does rest almost solely on comparison to the first movie, plus any was it painful to watch feelings I got during viewing. I didn't feel any of the latter at any point (except John Turturro's hairy, unnecessary ass) and I thought this movie was better executed in every category of film than the previous film.

Also: At one point Tyrese Gibson's character says EMP Burst. I was waiting for them to do it! Mwahaha!

Finally: Okay Bob, I'm sorry! Beast Wars was awesome.

[The Wandering God]

Alternatively if there was an Avatar: TLA movie *tear*, which I'm a big fan of and hold in high regard, I automatically hold the movie up to a really high standard. Taking both cases together, I'd be more likely to be impressed by the Power Rangers movie if they just threw money at the special effects budget (and Bay would), whereas it would be hard to impress me with the Avatar movie.

Beast Wars was awesome.[/SPOILER]
You do know there is an Avatar movie thread (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showthread.php?t=35158) further down the page right? It's being directed by M. Night Shyamalan. (Who has the creators approval. They are also co-writing the film adaption with M. Night.)

And yeah, Beast Wars was great. Especially Megatron, yesss.

The Wandering God

[BitVyper]

the source material? Atrocious.

You wanna turn around, get on your horse, and ride out of town now, son. And if I were you, I wouldn't stop until I made it very far away. Folks 'round here don't take kindly t'your type.

[Marc v1.0]

You wanna turn around, get on your horse, and ride out of town now, son. And if I were you, I wouldn't stop until I made it very far away. Folks 'round here don't take kindly t'your type.

In all seriousness, from a long time fan of Transformers, the original series had nothing very concrete in the way of 'plot' or 'plot movement'. It worked just fine when I was a young lad and it didn't matter cause "HOFUCK GIANT ROBOTS". The animated movie was really the first thing that had a semi-coherent plot, which was overshawdoed by the CONSTANT JAMMING 80's MUSIC FUCK YEAH.

Yeah, it's not like they had more then "Giant robots who turn into vehicles" to work with, even with a few seasons of an entire series.

Question: I don't understand the Bay hate, really, where does it come from? It's an action movie, a summer action movie with Giant Robots who Turn Into Vehicles and are Waging a War and are Compelled to Fight with Little Provacation. I'm assuming it's not supposed to be full of explosions and special effects and action close-ups? Looking over his movie resume, I can't really find a movie that would be considered horrible for it's time or anything to warrent so much nerd rage (Armageddon seems to be the peak of his work, though, which is ok by me cause it's good)

EDIT: I mean, dear god he's not Uwe Boll He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named

[Azisien]

You do know there is an Avatar movie thread (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showthread.php?t=35158) further down the page right? It's being directed by M. Night Shyamalan. (Who has the creators approval. They are also co-writing the film adaption with M. Night.)

You do know that was the reason for my silent tear, right?

Despite his daughters apparently being really into the show, that bar is gonna be set hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh.

[Jagos]

Here's my ish:

One, we get introduced to throwaway characters. They're the ones that we see maybe once or twice but not again Arcee twins

We had a CRAPTON of Decepticons that just... Yeah, I got nothing on them. They were there and Megatron had ALLL that power and he still doesn't get the job done? Pfshh....

The Autobots weren't any better. The Twins just came off as crap knockoffs of Bumblebee in the first movie.

Though, the idea of a human decepticon did freak me the fuck out. I mean damn, that's some Terminator shit right there...

I really can't say I liked this movie a whole lot... the first did better with a smaller cast and gave enough screen time to the ones needed to make me care for Sam AS WELL as the military and Autobot viewpoints.

This one was just too convoluted for its own good. Damn sequelitis...

[BitVyper]

In all seriousness, from a long time fan of Transformers, the original series had nothing very concrete in the way of 'plot' or 'plot movement'.

In all seriousness, when I start talking like I'm in a spaghetti western, I'm usually joking. Usually.

That said, yeah, the cartoon is awful in retrospect (although the original movie was and still is fantastic). The G1 comics were great though.

The cartoon did have its moments though, which is more than I can say for a lot of eighties cartoons, particularly Optimus standing right over Megatron and shooting him repeatedly. I think that just looked cool. It had some pretty good voice acting too.

[Mirai Gen]

Just saw it. Liked it quite a bit.

This movie was proof that the entire hacker subplot in the first movie was totally unnecessary. Bay seems to have a severe problem throwing together even more characters by the bagsful for no reason other than additional effects.

This was only enhanced by the addition of more 'Bots and 'Cons. Okay, I get that they wanted to add Arcee and the other cycles for a while, but why did she get seriously like, one line? Could have done without completely and handed off more lines to the other 'Bots. And what about Devastator? We spend two movies looking forward to the Constructicons and then they don't even get to speak? Who the hell were the other nameless Cons, anyway? Less is more, Bay, please get the memo.

As a longstanding (or at least relatively) TF fan, I loved the homages they threw in. Everything from Jetfire's being an ex-Decepticon to the Matrix of Leadership to The Fallen being one of the original Primes, this movie was rife with all sorts of tidbits in there for longstanding fans. Ravage!

Rest of the movie was enjoyable. The fact that they included some of the faintly alluded-towards things in the last movie (such as Archibald Whitwicky going insane after finding Megatron) solidified a fair bit.

Though the Twins were enjoyable the gold-tooth and bug-eyed thing was just uncomfortable, especially considering their original form in the beginning is a korean ice cream truck. I mean, come on, that is not an accident.

EDIT: I love that they turned Starscream into a sniveling backstabbing coward once more. Fuck yes.

[walkertexasdruid]

I liked it very much!

[h4x.m4g3]

Overall highly enjoyable summer action 'popcorn' movie.

Some problems I had with the plot -
Optimus just kind of grabs the super doomsday weapon to destroy it, why couldn't the other primes do the same thing instead of the whole vault composed of our bodies thing.

They got points for doing Starscream better, but he needed to have shot Megatron in the back of the head and screamed 'MEGATRON HAS FALLEN!' in the end sequence after Super Optimus ripped off part of his face.

[synkr0nized]

"I am under its scrotum."

This movie was awful, and you all know it.
laffo (http://io9.com/5301898/michael-bay-finally-made-an-art-movie)

[Marc v1.0]

So, no one can explain the Bay issues to me? I really don't get it...

[Sky Warrior Bob]

So, no one can explain the Bay issues to me? I really don't get it...

Well, okay to put it bluntly. His movies, like Armegeddon, The Rock, Pearl Harbor and various others... are known for a lot of action, but usually a less-than-coherent plot (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000881/). Or at least that's the general opinion.

You might think entirely otherwise, and that's just fine. But that's his rep.

SWB
Michael Bay presents: Explosions (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRS90V8BQGo)!
MB is also in on the joke, as per this commericial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiHsxQJ9ZOo).

[Premonitions]

I'm pissed that tiger did'nt explode.

[Marc v1.0]

That would have been awesome.

I'm willing to blame The Rock not being completely plot friendly on Cage, cause he tends to space-time warp plots into masses of jelly with his goofy presence and half-open mouth expressions.

In general, I think Bay has begun to refine the "Summer Movie" niche the same way Boll has perfected the "Ha Ha Fuck Your Dreams" niche. I don't expect really amazing plots from my Summer Movies as a whole, I just want a good story and some explosions and action to shovel popcorn down to. He does a good job of that, managing to tell good stories even if the plot isn't a jewel when looked at really close.

[krogothwolf]

I enjoy Michael Bay movies, mainly because i think awesome should = explosions and I think the tiger should have transformed then exploded.

He was right about critics in a recently interview they do posses an anti-fun gene and he does cater to what the audience wants. Action, Hot girls, Explosions.

[synkr0nized]

There's a difference between "fun" and "explosions everywhere loosely connected by my shitty writing".

[Marc v1.0]

See, that's what I mean. It wasn't so offensivly horrible unless you actually expected it to be some sort of sublime journy into the human condition or something.

It was not even close to the stiff, barely watchable scenes of 'talking' between characters that Lucas scribbled out for the recent movies. The actors were good, they played their parts well, and they didn't sound like wooded statues with no feel or emotion.

[01d55]

Explosions don't really do much for me unless I've got some reason to care, one way or another, about what's exploding.

[Tev]

So quick question for those who may be more in the know that me. I've got a hang-up on the difference between what was said and what was done in several parts of the movie but there is one part that stands out the most to me:

So it was reiterated over and over and over that "only a Prime can kill Prime." It made sense in a way since it meant you needed Optimus around to finish off The Fallen because both were Primes. But even after all the stressing we have Megatron gutting Optimus and we see him clearly dying. Is....Megatron a "Prime?" In this movie he seemed to be more of a follower of The Fallen. Granted Megatron is badass, but if he's not a Prime....well then....you get the idea.

So yeah, what's the deal there? And don't give me the excuse "Well Optimus didn't really die! He came back to life thanks to the All-Spark!" That's silly. He was really killed by Megatron and then got to come back to life because the story said so.

[Marc v1.0]

So quick question for those who may be more in the know that me. I've got a hang-up on the difference between what was said and what was done in several parts of the movie but there is one part that stands out the most to me:

So it was reiterated over and over and over that "only a Prime can kill Prime." It made sense in a way since it meant you needed Optimus around to finish off The Fallen because both were Primes. But even after all the stressing we have Megatron gutting Optimus and we see him clearly dying. Is....Megatron a "Prime?" In this movie he seemed to be more of a follower of The Fallen. Granted Megatron is badass, but if he's not a Prime....well then....you get the idea.

So yeah, what's the deal there? And don't give me the excuse "Well Optimus didn't really die! He came back to life thanks to the All-Spark!" That's silly. He was really killed by Megatron and then got to come back to life because the story said so.


Quite Possibly? More then likely, Prime wasn't as powerful as the Fallen thought until the end when Jetfire gives his power and parts to Prime, MAKING him powerful enough to stand up to the Fallen, and the Fallen only thought he was because he assumed all Primes were powerful like him and the others.

[krogothwolf]

I think its easy to explain

I dont believe Optimus Prime was one of the Original 7. I didn't see that mentioned anymore. Since the 7 Primes were befpore Autobot vs Decepicon it would make snese that both Prime and Megatron are new age Primes so therefore Optimus could Kill the Fallen and Megatron could kill Optimus. And the All Spark could kill anyhitng. Having a Master doesn't automically mean you aren't a Prime. Just a subservant one

[synkr0nized]

See, that's what I mean. It wasn't so offensivly horrible unless you actually expected it to be some sort of sublime journy into the human condition or something.

Yeah, I totally didn't expect anything as retardedly off-base as that, and I was still disappointed in the narration and storytelling.

[Mirai Gen]

The plot was pretty terrible.

I mean all Transformers fanboyism aside much of the plot consisted of entire balls full of new characters thrown in at the speed of light, a complete rush of events that make only fragments of sense, and a bunch of robot fights.

It's saving graces mostly consist of good acting (For the most part), great action scenes, and lots of Transformers throwbacks whenever they give them names or personalities.

It isn't like I'm first in line for seeing it again but it was worth seeing and as a Transformers fan I'm happy. They just need to get a decent set of writers.

[Jagos]

Well, to be fair the Writer's strike did occur when this was going on. More than likely, Bay can't write out of a paper bag.

[Mirai Gen]

First one had the same problems.

[Mac]

My opinions can be summed up in this comic

http://i43.tinypic.com/nme1ih.png

It wasn't a bad film. AN enjoyable popcorn flick. Coming from Michael bay, what else did we expect.

[Wyndon]

Not to derail the thread, but what's the plot inconsistency with The Rock?

[Marc v1.0]

Not to derail the thread, but what's the plot inconsistency with The Rock?

Nicolas Cage

[Azisien]

I would have been frightened had the plot taken time to simmer. I mean for the love of Xenu, my bladder and kidneys were ready to burst with urine by the end of the current movie and fuck you 32oz drinks with free refills!

[Kepor]

A most enlightening article on the movie. (http://io9.com/5301898/michael-bay-finally-made-an-art-movie?skyline=true&s=x)

Or at least, a funny one. Made me chuckle.

[Seil]

I was all set to deliver a fatal blow to the arguments of "Michael Bay Ga-SPLOOM!" but alas, I was thinking of Michael Mann. Oh, well, what the heck: Ga-SPLOOM! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vo-fNx6FAy8&feature=PlayList&p=1A3928FE41FFF05C&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=12)

Anyways, what's with the Cage bashing? He was damn good in The Rock. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqqZ9dbWzD4) Damn Good. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD5GtohtRYU)

[EVILNess]

... much of the plot consisted of entire balls full of new characters thrown in at the speed of light, a complete rush of events that make only fragments of sense, and a bunch of robot fights.


You just described the original cartoon.

[Marc v1.0]

http://io9.com/5301898/michael-bay-finally-made-an-art-movie


laffo (http://io9.com/5301898/michael-bay-finally-made-an-art-movie)

A most enlightening article on the movie. (http://io9.com/5301898/michael-bay-finally-made-an-art-movie?skyline=true&s=x)


The three of you just wore the same dress to the prom. And by just I mean on different days, but whatever.

[Premonitions]

CATFIGHT!
I'LL GET THE PUDDING AND THE CAMERA!

[Mirai Gen]

You just described the original cartoon.

Right! Except I'm not eight anymore.

[Marc v1.0]

Right! Except I'm not eight anymore.


Deep down inside, we all are still a little.

[krogothwolf]

Deep down inside, we all are still a little.

Man, I'm still kid even on the outside. I just recently bought the new releases of the Original Cartoon. Holy crap did they back it full of lame jokes, I mean leaping lubricants and jumping gyros when did I actually find that funny? And all the glaring errors in it......yet its still better then some of the shit they show nowadays for kids.

[Mirai Gen]

Deep down inside, we all are still a little.

Well I did enjoy this movie on a quasi-senseless level. Giant robots beating each other to death, many of them are representations of the old cartoon, tons and tons of homages to way-back-when and subtle characters, etc.

But I'm not going to act like the writing wasn't on par with Gears 2.

[Melfice]

Right! Except I'm not eight anymore.

Man, you collect toys!
Biologically, you might not, but mentally at least a little bit. ;)

[Mirai Gen]

Well yeah, but there's no way I can stomach 1980s writing (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Nightbird) today.

[Melfice]

Fair enough, fair enough.
I WAS just kidding around anyway, as I'm sure you knew.

[Mirai Gen]

Yup. Just wanted an excuse to link to Nightbird.

[grthwllms]

I'll say that I was severely disappointed with one aspect of the movie

When they revealed Jetfire as having a Blackbird as his vehicle mode I was rather excited, I thought if they were going to go through the trouble of having the fastest manned plane ever to fucking exist they'd do some kinda cool aerial battle with it.

But no, nothing of the sort.


Other than that no major complaints I guess, the Twins were an unneeded bit of stupidity, and the human parts drag on. But it's still entertaining enough.

[synkr0nized]

The three of you just wore the same dress to the prom. And by just I mean on different days, but whatever.

Ok, fine, have another (http://www.toplessrobot.com/2009/06/bonus_robs_transformers_2_faqs.php).

[Smarty McBarrelpants]

I am already incredibly sick of this movie, and I'm just typing questions about it.
That's a class comment right there.

[Meister]

Ok, fine, have another (http://www.toplessrobot.com/2009/06/bonus_robs_transformers_2_faqs.php).
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/9773/emotpsyboom.gif (http://img222.imageshack.us/i/emotpsyboom.gif/)

[Mirai Gen]

So the Decepticons want the shard? Why?
Uh... to bring Megatron back to life?

What?
That's what they said.

But the Allspark killed Megatron in the first movie.
Yes.

...and now it can also bring him back to life.
It's very powerful, this Allspark.

(snip)

Well, if one shard brought Megatron back to life, can't Sam just use his shard piece to resurrect Optimus?
Yes. He could.

...
...

Well?
He doesn't.

Why not?
I'm not sure exactly.

He summed up quite well much of what I kept thinking during the entire chase for the Allspark.

[Marc v1.0]

He summed up quite well much of what I kept thinking during the entire chase for the Allspark.

Sam used his shard to wake up Jetfire. It was an obvious scene,where Wheelie says "Hold the fragment up to it" or something to that effect and then it flies out of his hand.

That link actually reminds me of a review I read on the recent Terminator movie where the writer obviously fell asleep during parts that were very clearly shown or explained, or he was just making shit up to be funny

[Mirai Gen]

If there was more explanation for the Allspark that wasn't "The big magic box that does PLOT DEVICE" it would work just fine. But there was no such thing.

[Marc v1.0]

What's not clear?

It can bring machines to life. It killed Megatron because it passed almost all the energ(on)y contained inside of it, which overloaded him. It also held information and could become travel-sided for kicks. Working off what we know from the first part of my post, it can bring machines to life, it's not really a leap for them to try and use the shard (a smaller piece containing a smaller amount of energy) to bring him back to life using some spare parts.

[Smarty McBarrelpants]

It can bring machines to life. It killed Megatron because it passed almost all the energ(on)y contained inside of it, which overloaded him. It also held information and could become travel-sided for kicks. Working off what we know from the first part of my post, it can bring machines to life, it's not really a leap for them to try and use the shard (a smaller piece containing a smaller amount of energy) to bring him back to life using some spare parts.

Read what you just wrote again. See how nonsense this is?
I mean it is the kind of thing I'd expect out of a 70s superhero strip.

[Jagos]

What's not clear?

It can bring machines to life. It killed Megatron because it passed almost all the energ(on)y contained inside of it, which overloaded him. It also held information and could become travel-sided for kicks. Working off what we know from the first part of my post, it can bring machines to life, it's not really a leap for them to try and use the shard (a smaller piece containing a smaller amount of energy) to bring him back to life using some spare parts.

In a cave with a Box of Scraps?

Why is it that Megatron and Optimus could fight on par when in the first movie Optimus had a HARD time fighting Mega? Then he can fight three robots at once?

Seriously, there are a few more inconsistencies that we need to get explained.

[Azisien]

They NEED to be explained? :p

[Fifthfiend]

Why is it that Megatron and Optimus could fight on par when in the first movie Optimus had a HARD time fighting Mega? Then he can fight three robots at once?

Seriously, there are a few more inconsistencies that we need to get explained.

Oh shit guys light bulb

Bleach: The Movie

A Michael Bay Production

[Azisien]

Come to think of it, Bay should have done Dragonball. Inconsistent plots, human portions that drag on, power levels that change for no reason, ridiculous explosions everywhere.

It would be perfect!!!

[grthwllms]

Read what you just wrote again. See how nonsense this is?
I mean it is the kind of thing I'd expect out of a 70s superhero strip.

You think that's nonsense?

Where does Optimus store his Cargo cab in the original cartoon?

How can Soundwave transform into a HUMAN SIZED STEREO?

AND MEGATRON INTO A GUN?!

THIS SHIT DON'T NEED TO MAKE SENSE, SON.

THIS IS WAR.

[Jagos]

AND MEGATRON INTO A GUN?!

and only Starscream gets to hold him... How F'd up is that?

[grthwllms]

and only Starscream gets to hold him... How F'd up is that?

It's racism is what it is.

Just because Starscream is from North-west Cybertron.

[Marc v1.0]

Mass-Displacement.

I never once said that my explaination was going to make sense, I just said it was obvious given the details. Really, you expect it to make sense? Damn kids today and your logic and reason...

[Bob the Mercenary]

Didn't know this thread was here. Everyone pretty much summed up what I thought of this monstrocity. Out of the nine of us that went to see it, four ended up with migraines.

[Mirai Gen]

You think that's nonsense?

Where does Optimus store his Cargo cab in the original cartoon?

How can Soundwave transform into a HUMAN SIZED STEREO?

AND MEGATRON INTO A GUN?!

THIS SHIT DON'T NEED TO MAKE SENSE, SON.

THIS IS WAR.

Like I said, I'm not eight anymore. This movie was fun and enjoyable but the plot was just...a mess. Which is funny cause browsing over Wikipedia makes claim of the fact that they had a team of writers working on it that Bay locked into their hotel.

[Jagos]

I guess the monkeys should have went into overtime.

[synkr0nized]

Sam used his shard to wake up Jetfire. It was an obvious scene,where Wheelie says "Hold the fragment up to it" or something to that effect and then it flies out of his hand.

That link actually reminds me of a review I read on the recent Terminator movie where the writer obviously fell asleep during parts that were very clearly shown or explained, or he was just making shit up to be funny

Yeah, but, see, why bother reviving one guy if you're looking to revive the other guy? Why does the shard work on Jetfire but not Optimus? Furthermore, why did it kill Megatron but is somehow what they needed to revive him? That's the point made in that section of the review. It's pretty easy to be awake during this whole Baytacular Excursion and still have those questions.

[Marc v1.0]

Yeah, but, see, why bother reviving one guy if you're looking to revive the other guy? Why does the shard work on Jetfire but not Optimus? Furthermore, why did it kill Megatron but is somehow what they needed to revive him? That's the point made in that section of the review. It's pretty easy to be awake during this whole Baytacular Excursion and still have those questions.

...because it was THE WHOLE DAMN CUBE in the first movie. You don't plug a battery-powered device directly into a DC current and wonder why it didn't work like the batteries did.

And possibly the shard wasn't big enough to revive Prime from -death- but had enough juice to wake jetfire, who was old and not dead, just dormant. It's didn't come out and explain it, but I don't need every detail explained to me. Sometimes they make choices not to go into microscopic detail because they figure anyone who is watching has seen the first one and can make the connections.

[NonCon]

Or sometimes the plot is just bullshit. :P

[SubZero]

I going to have to agree with Marc. I understood it all perfectly. Just because something is confusing to you and not to someone else, it doesn't mean "the plot is just bullshit'. It just means that you're either too lazy or just not attentive enough to try to understanding it.

Its kinda like walking out of the first Matrix movie and saying, "But didn't the Oracle say Neo wasn't the One? That plot was just bullshit!"

[h4x.m4g3]

Yeah, but, see, why bother reviving one guy if you're looking to revive the other guy? Why does the shard work on Jetfire but not Optimus? Furthermore, why did it kill Megatron but is somehow what they needed to revive him? That's the point made in that section of the review. It's pretty easy to be awake during this whole Baytacular Excursion and still have those questions.

If I remember correctly they won't looking to resurrect Prime at that point, just figure out what Megatron was after (by translating the symbols) and therefore needed to talk to an old guy (Jetfire). If I remember correctly the min-Decepticon told him to hold up the spark, given they were lead by The Fallen and he was sent to retrieve the shard, I assumed he knew the shard could provide life force (energon), but the good guys didn't. Also it seemed that the shard's power was quite limited (the decepticon's had to rip apart that one guy to resurrect Megatron, something I doubt Optimus would approve of if once he got back up to speed). Resurrecting Jetfire with just the shard was easier (and possible) because he just got old and stopped. It's the difference between restoring a classic car, and repairing one that's gone through the compacter.

[NonCon]

I going to have to agree with Marc. I understood it all perfectly. Just because something is confusing to you and not to someone else, it doesn't mean "the plot is just bullshit'. It just means that you're either too lazy or just not attentive enough to try to understanding it.

Its kinda like walking out of the first Matrix movie and saying, "But didn't the Oracle say Neo wasn't the One? That plot was just bullshit!"

You don't catch on to me just joking around, do you? I mean, I was worried people wouldn't get that I was kidding, so I go ahead and stick :P at the end of it, but nope!

Besides, I don't think anyone is saying it's confusing. They're saying it's retarded.

[Azisien]

HEY we could always do something crazy like praise parts of the movie we liked instead of razz on it like stereotypical internet forum goers!


I loved how they portrayed Soundwave. He was arguably the most badass decepticon in the movie. Look at him up there. Just sitting there all transformed into a satellite, kicking intelligence ass and taking intelligence names. I may be biased because he was my favourite from the old cartoon.

I thought the comedy in the movie was much improved minus Turturro's hairy ass, wait, was that supposed to be funny?.

[SubZero]

You don't catch on to me just joking around, do you? I mean, I was worried people wouldn't get that I was kidding, so I go ahead and stick :P at the end of it, but nope!

Besides, I don't think anyone is saying it's confusing. They're saying it's retarded.

Its a movie that caters to fans of a 1980's Saturday morning cartoon. What were they expecting? ;)

[NonCon]

Its a movie that caters to fans of a 1980's Saturday morning cartoon. What were they expecting? ;)

Here's the thing. Just because you go into something expecting a shitty plot, does not change the fact that the plot is shitty. I give you a book to read and tell you that it's retarded, and you read it, it's still going to be just as retarded, regardless of your expectations.

[TheWolf13]

Why are you people going to this movie expecting anything other than a goofy action flick? Transformers is about cars that change into GIANT ROBOTS and fight each other . What more do you want? It's like watching a chick flick and saying wow there wasn't very much action in that movie I'm disappointed.

[SubZero]

Here's the thing. Just because you go into something expecting a shitty plot, does not change the fact that the plot is shitty. I give you a book to read and tell you that it's retarded, and you read it, it's still going to be just as retarded, regardless of your expectations.

No offense, but that's kinda like saying if I give you a Mario game and tell you that it has a terrible plot, and you play it, its still going to have a terrible plot, regardless of your expectations.

Sometimes the plot isn't the defining characteristic. Case and point, Transformers and its sequel, movies about giant robots beating the crap out of each other. :p

[NonCon]

And yet people are defending the plot.

[SubZero]

And yet people are defending the plot.

No, we're saying that it was a plot that made sense. We never said it was a good one.

[Jagos]

Sometimes the plot isn't the defining characteristic. Case and point, Transformers and its sequel, movies about giant robots beating the crap out of each other
The Fallen was coherent?

[Azisien]

Here's the thing. Just because you go into something expecting a shitty plot, does not change the fact that the plot is shitty. I give you a book to read and tell you that it's retarded, and you read it, it's still going to be just as retarded, regardless of your expectations.

Actually I disagree completely. Perspective means a lot when evaluating anything.

[synkr0nized]

...because it was THE WHOLE DAMN CUBE in the first movie. You don't plug a battery-powered device directly into a DC current and wonder why it didn't work like the batteries did.

And possibly the shard wasn't big enough to revive Prime from -death- but had enough juice to wake jetfire, who was old and not dead, just dormant. It's didn't come out and explain it, but I don't need every detail explained to me. Sometimes they make choices not to go into microscopic detail because they figure anyone who is watching has seen the first one and can make the connections.

Oh man.

I similarly don't expect a tiny piece of something that was broken to have powers potentially greater than the whole (I would argue that bringing a life back is more demanding than taking it away, though I'm willing to grant that's not the case). But this is "the All Spark," so you have to throw that kind of convention out the window. It still has no rhyme or reason to why the cube/cube parts have disparity among what they can do and have done, or why the characters in the movie expect them to do different things between movies, especially based on their previous experiences ("This has killed a giant robot before and turned appliances into mini-Decepticons and is doing so again in this movie! Let's go use it to help us out!"). This is what that review was pointing out; to accuse him/her of not paying attention is off-base.

It's entirely likely that you're not actually trying to insinuate that I'm stupid/incapable of connecting the dots between the two movies with that last paragraph, so I won't take that bait and will instead emphasize that it's not even the strings that tied the two movies together that were so retarded. I agree with you (and Sub) that his point (and I suppose somehow it's my point now, based on how I worded that post above?) about reviving one guy instead of the other loses strength considering the state of the characters in question. Fine. But there are several other aspects that are honestly quite silly. A Decepticon college girl who happens to be in the right place ahead of time (the roommate, for one, knew who she was and had seen her before; it's easily explained by the Decepticon just taking her form or the like, though), a military group to hide the Autobots despite massive public witnessing of events, a prime (the Fallen) being scared of [and then defeated by] the descendant version of a prime despite apparently having defeated/held off several other primes, the latter forming a tomb of their own bodies to seal away the key to a super weapon in the same country on the same planet as the super weapon, etc..

Again, it's not a lack of understanding but a lack of satisfaction with it. The transformers were fun, when they got screen time. Soundwave was terrific, even despite not getting in on the action, Starscream+Megz was appropriately good, and despite it being a cheap half-line we got to see Arcee (at least I believe they were calling the cycles by her name), etc.. But I'm not going to give the movie's writing accolades just because I got a kick out of some explosions and CG.


@Sub: Your extention of NonCon's post to a Mario game isn't 100% smooth, I'd say. Books, and movies, are media wherein one's primary activity is to experience and enjoy the story, either with the help of visuals or your imagination (or both). A game adds to story gameplay and interaction for the player(s), and without embarking on a discussion of whether or not story is essential to good games the argument can easily be made that a terrible plot can be offset to some degree with good and enjoyable gameplay. How do you mitigate terrible storytelling in a story-based medium?

Man, it's OK to enjoy awful movies or narration. We all do it often. But that doesn't keep them from being pretty bad.

[Azisien]

Oh man.

I similarly don't expect a tiny piece of something that was broken to have powers potentially greater than the whole (I would argue that bringing a life back is more demanding than taking it away, though I'm willing to grant that's not the case). But this is "the All Spark," so you have to throw that kind of convention out the window. It still has no rhyme or reason to why the cube/cube parts have disparity among what they can do and have done, or why the characters in the movie expect them to do different things between movies, especially based on their previous experiences ("This has killed a giant robot before and turned appliances into mini-Decepticons and is doing so again in this movie! Let's go use it to help us out!"). This is what that review was pointing out; to accuse him/her of not paying attention is off-base.

It's entirely likely that you're not actually trying to insinuate that I'm stupid/incapable of connecting the dots between the two movies with that last paragraph, so I won't take that bait and will instead emphasize that it's not even the strings that tied the two movies together that were so retarded. I agree with you (and Sub) that his point (and I suppose somehow it's my point now, based on how I worded that post above?) about reviving one guy instead of the other loses strength considering the state of the characters in question. Fine. But there are several other aspects that are honestly quite silly. A Decepticon college girl who happens to be in the right place ahead of time (the roommate, for one, knew who she was and had seen her before; it's easily explained by the Decepticon just taking her form or the like, though), a military group to hide the Autobots despite massive public witnessing of events, a prime (the Fallen) being scared of [and then defeated by] the descendant version of a prime despite apparently having defeated/held off several other primes, the latter forming a tomb of their own bodies to seal away the key to a super weapon in the same country on the same planet as the super weapon, etc..

Again, it's not a lack of understanding but a lack of satisfaction with it. The transformers were fun, when they got screen time. Soundwave was terrific, even despite not getting in on the action, Starscream+Megz was appropriately good, and despite it being a cheap half-line we got to see Arcee (at least I believe they were calling the cycles by her name), etc.. But I'm not going to give the movie's writing accolades just because I got a kick out of some explosions and CG.


@Sub: Your extention of NonCon's post to a Mario game isn't 100% smooth, I'd say. Books, and movies, are media wherein one's primary activity is to experience and enjoy the story, either with the help of visuals or your imagination (or both). A game adds to story gameplay and interaction for the player(s), and without embarking on a discussion of whether or not story is essential to good games the argument can easily be made that a terrible plot can be offset to some degree with good and enjoyable gameplay. How do you mitigate terrible storytelling in a story-based medium?

Man, it's OK to enjoy awful movies or narration. We all do it often. But that doesn't keep them from being pretty bad.

Wait, who gave this movie's writing accolades?

[Marc v1.0]

I similarly don't expect a tiny piece of something that was broken to have powers potentially greater than the whole (I would argue that bringing a life back is more demanding than taking it away, though I'm willing to grant that's not the case). But this is "the All Spark," so you have to throw that kind of convention out the window. It still has no rhyme or reason to why the cube/cube parts have disparity among what they can do and have done, or why the characters in the movie expect them to do different things between movies, especially based on their previous experiences ("This has killed a giant robot before and turned appliances into mini-Decepticons and is doing so again in this movie! Let's go use it to help us out!"). This is what that review was pointing out; to accuse him/her of not paying attention is off-base.

...It gives life. It GIVES Life. IT GIVES LIFE. It's accepted it does that, from the first movie(it even FIXED Frenzy, dammit). It's a great big box of life-energy and knowledge, and only killed because it was used to an extreme. It's completely fair for me to say he didn't pay any fucking attention when it is apparent that he didn't pay any fucking attention

It's the same thing as with the Terminator review I saw. Non TF related spoiler- He completely ignored the fact that it's explained that Skynet used the 'machine disable signal' as a trick to track down the Resistance HQ, and said that they never once expanded on how Skynet tracked them down or why the signal didn't work. It's a rubbish review.

And no, not saying you're stupid, but that the person quoted from the review is either stupid or just ignoring things to make a funny review taking shots at a popular movie.

[RickZarber]

I don't have much to add to the discussion, as anything I'd want to say has pretty much been said by others, but I did want to share this:

The IMAX theater that I go to happens to be in the very Air & Space Museum where they filmed those scenes in the movie! I also used to work in that museum a few years ago. So that whole sequence was really super cool for me. The whole audience applauded at the establishing shot!

However, it was really unexpected and disconcerting when they went outside and saw an airfield full of old planes surrounded by huge freakin' mountains instead of Dulles Airport and trees. :p

[Bells]

You guys are such nerds...

I kid, i kid !!! I just wanted to introduce another topic here.

This movie was a Financially success, regardless of it's reviews. So, there is going to a 3rd one. Bay gave (at least some) ear to the plea of the fans from the first to the second movie.

So, i ask you... given as you guys have such deep insights about this movie, what would make you come out of Transformers 3 saying "This was the best one"?

No Human characters? Shorter movie? Less Robots? More explosions? Maybe the Big Bad of the movie is a Transformer disguised as a Large Hadron Collider?

[synkr0nized]

No Human characters? Shorter movie? Less Robots? More explosions? Maybe the Big Bad of the movie is a Transformer disguised as a Large Hadron Collider?

Less of the parents (they can be funny to a point), more shouts to Transformers we grew up with (i.e. less random, nameless, same-looking Decepticons popping out of balls from space), no stereotype-laden failures, as many explosions as he wants, sure, and let's go with your idea about the villain. And Soundwave should drop orbital death upon the world.

The transformations are detailed and rich -- while some might dislike them, I enjoy them.
The robot fights are obviously what most of us want to see.

Spinning camera shots around Megan Fox are not necessary.

Oh, and no testicle jokes.

But we're at 120+ posts now, so let's migrate to another thread for more.