Twilight Sucks (And Not In The Vampiric Sense)

[Seil]

Much like there was a thread for Chrono Trigger DS, and another thread for how much Chron Trigger DS stinks, I thought there should be a mirrored Twilight thread.

Now, this is a review my brother wrote. In my family, I have two older brothers and a younger sister. My sister is a typical teenager (Ugh.) and indulges in typical teenager things, like Twilight (Ugh.) pseudo-punk fashion/music and believes pretty much every young guy in a leading role in mainstream film is amazingly hot.

My second older brother is kinda the bad apple of the family, what with the drugs and stuff. My oldest brother is a total nerd, and damn proud of that. He can read Stephen King's books in near a day, he studies Film at Ryerson in Toronto and is trying to do it for a living. He's made a number of short films as well as reviewed a few others. This is his review of Twilight.

(As for what I have to say? Go read something good, like Interview With A Vampire (http://ca.wrs.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0S0zu0YfixJLv8AV1L2FAx./SIG=13qhurig1/EXP=1227739032/**http%3A//products.priceclash.co.uk/images/nodrop/220/0345476875/books/interview-with-the-vampire-542.jpg), or at least something mediocre, like Vampires Don't Wear Polka Dots (http://kids-clothing.respect-ufa.ru/p/88/images/vampires-dont-wear-polka-dots-the-adventures-of-the-bailey-school-kids.jpg).)

So Twilight made 70 million dollars this weekend. And it sucks. This is nothing new, Sex and the City was a crime against both eyes and art, and now it's getting a trilogy. And before I get too deep into my criticism, I will give it this. It made geeky fanboys out of the crowd that ridiculed us most. Camping out, lining up around the block, as big a crowd at Comicon as Watchmen? Girls, you are nerds. *one of us, one of us*

Anyway, so, by now everyone knows about Twilight. Girl movie to small town, runs it with devastaingly attractive emo boy in science class, turns out he's a vampire. They can't be together because he kinda wants to eat her. But they are in LOVE. He's mysterious and intense, but really a good boy, doesn't want to do anything inappropriate. He's, like, totally perfect.

Except he's not a vampire. Now I know I can be pretty strict with my mythological creatures (zombies DO NOT run), but I can take bit of creative license, But seriously. What makes him a vampire. He has no fangs. He doesn't sleep in a coffin. He doesn't even sleep. Which doesn't matter cause he can go out in broad daylight. He lives off animals, and refuses to kill humans. Even though he really, really wants to. That's not being a vampire. That's being mentally unstable. Sure, he's immortal and hard to kill and glitters in daylight. But so's Clancy Brown in Highlander. Would covering the Kurgan in glitter make him a vampire? I thought not But it will still be awesomer than Edward Cullen.

As for the romanticism, that just leads me back to that mentally unstable thing I mentioned earlier. He's romantic because he keeps professing his desire to feast on Bella's vital fluids? Actually, let's go back. He shouldn't be going near any of her bodily fluids, vital or otherwise. He's ninety years old. He may look young, but he's a victim of the influenza epidemic. And he just keeps going to high school, over and over again. That's creepy and a little disgusting. Why does he keep going to school? He never interacts with anyone. He just hangs out with his faux brothers and sisters and looks pretty in his oh-so-tragic wardrobe and beautiful cars. So much for discretion. And everyone knows that high school sucks. I'm sorry, but it does. It's 4 years of stupid bullshit, that doesn't really matter in the real world. I was the farthest thing from cool in high school, and now I'm a goddamned filmmaker. I'm the same person, but in the real world my quirks and eccentricities are a good thing, despite what high school would have had me believe.

Wow, that was kind of bitter. Back on point. Edward also follows her around, into the city and in super protective. If I followed my girlfriend everywhere and refused to let her look after herself, I would dump my own ass on her behalf. Granted he does save her from almost certain rape, but that's just common decency. If anyone has to the power to do that, and doesn't they deserve to have to be forced to read this tripe for eternity. Lastly, he sneaks into her room and watches her sleep. What. The. Hell. Someone who wants to eat you and is constantly fighting not to, watching you sleep, all night. That is scar If any one of the girls who swoon after Edward actually had to deal with that, they would freak. And then their parents would come in, and things would get messy, and out of control .

And all of this in generic boring writing. I mean, there are literally pages of Bella mooning over Edward's eyes. And not a full chapter without mentioning Bella is a klutz. I won't even get into the heavy handed anti-Catholic Mormon allegory side of it. Well, maybe a little. Edward is a super good boy, with all his family of non-vampires and rejects most of what makes a vampire a vampire and keeps with a strict moral code. Including, among other things, no tongue kissing. This displeases the ancient order of vampire, that happen to be based in Rome.

Lastly, they made a movie of the whole mess. Which could have stripped out the more annoying parts. Like Bella's constant inner monologue. But they didn't. There are documentaries with less narration. They got a cast destined for reality TV, at least one of which can only get real work with the director of the movie. I had high hopes for Kristen Stewart, but alas. Funnily enough, the only one I don't hate in Pattinson, because he actually seems to be in on the joke. He almost didn't audition because he felt the role was too narissistic, and argued with Stephenie Meyers constantly. Which I approve of. Plus, the movie is going to distract from more deserving movies in theaters. How many people are going to see JCVD, or Synechode, New York? Slumdog Millionaire, or Milk. God forbid they go see Let The Right One In, a brilliant, beautiful, funny, heartbreaking movie about a young boy who falls in love with a girl. A girl who happens to be a vampire. Any one frame of that movie has 10 times the artistry and craft of all of Twilight. And they did it without changing the rules. They respected the mythos, and stuck to it. And no one will see it cause it's Swedish, and the vulgar masses would rather not read and watch at the same time.

In conclusion, Twilight is a pox on literature and a slap to the face of legitimate horror, and romance. It's a summation of more or less all that's wrong with modern cinema, and most of the young adult culture at large. I know this probably comes across as a bitter rant, but I have argued long and hard for the legitimacy of horror and pop culture in general, and I needed to have my feelings known.




OH!!!!! I JUST GOT IT!. Twilight sucks, but not vampirically. Just like how the characters aren't really vampires. It's all a meta-narrative about irony. It's like ray-hee-ain on my goddamed wedding day.

And for a counter-argument, Tom Brazelton of Theater Hopper: (http://www.theaterhopper.com/?)

I'm being a little unfair to the teenage fans of Twilight. For example, when discussing the movie's $70 million haul this weekend, my wife asked why I had to pin it on teenage girls.

Well, because that's who is going to this movie. I haven't met one guy who has said "Yeah! I'm pumped to see it!" I mean, girls are taking videos of themselves waiting in line for the movie and posting them online.

Just so we're clear, I don't have a problem with girls doing this. I'm not making fun of them for that. I just want to point out to every chick that's ever dissed a guy for waiting in line for Star Wars or Lord of the Rings, you have no moral authority now.

Truthfully, I wish this kind of thing would happen more often. I was thinking about how utterly confused I was by the Twilight phenomenon until I decided, "You know what - good for them." Seriously. How often does something like this come along for teenage girls? As it pertains to movies, I mean. People weren't exactly lining up around the block for midnight showings of the last Sandra Bullock movie, you know? Romantic comedies shouldn't be the exclusive domain for "chick flicks." Why can't they have a kick-ass franchise like Twilight? For some girls out there Twilight is to them what Iron Man is to me and I think that's AWESOME.

Does that mean I'm going to see Twilight? Unfortunately, no. At least not right away.

But not out of stubborness. More out of timeliness. I wasn't prepared mentally to face the crowd that was sure to be there over the weekend. Now with the Thanksgiving holiday fast approaching, I'll probably have to take a pass.

Still, Jeffery Wells over at Hollywood Elsewhere makes a good point. "Guys of all ages can go to this thing and learn (i.e., remind themselves) how to act with their girlfriends and wives in a way that will most likely lead to some action. This is not a painful-to-sit-through, young-girls-only movie. It goes down fairly easily, plus it's a major phenomenon that anyone who fancies himself to be any kind of cultural pulse-taker is absolutely required to see."

Suggesting the movie communicates a coda for behavior that will get you laid later on is kind of crass and not the message I was attracted to. Rather, being a cultural pulse-taker, I feel I owe it to myself to check things out lest I flap my gums further. So I may make time for this yet.

Cami is seeing the movie with her book club Tuesday night. So I'll have to see what she thinks. If she likes it, I'll probably try to check it out later.

That's it for now. Be sure to listen to The Triple Feature podcast tonight at 9:00 PM where we will discuss Twlight and more.

See you then!

[Sporticus]

Twilight is just a bunch of very heavily veiled Mormon recruitment rhetoric. That's why it's crappy, not because Meyer can't write (which she can't), but because of it's alterior motive. It's like Meyer didn't want to write this, but felt God pushing it on her or something.

[Kaneda]

Twilight is just a bunch of very heavily veiled Mormon recruitment rhetoric. That's why it's crappy, not because Meyer can't write (which she can't), but because of it's alterior motive. It's like Meyer didn't want to write this, but felt God pushing it on her or something.

What do you mean by that? I mean, they aren't good books, but the only thing that seems Mormon about it is the abstinency bits. If it is "Mormon recruitment rhetoric" it's probably subtle enough that it isn't interfering with the quality of the story.

[Irigriel]

Twilight is just a bunch of very heavily veiled Mormon recruitment rhetoric. That's why it's crappy, not because Meyer can't write (which she can't), but because of it's alterior motive. It's like Meyer didn't want to write this, but felt God pushing it on her or something.

Um, what? Where'd you get that idea from? It is not a Mormon recruitment rhetoric book. What parts of the book would make you think that way?

It's just a crappy, overhyped, printed letters on paper that I refuse to call a book, and which should burn.

[POS Industries]

Twilight is just a bunch of very heavily veiled Mormon recruitment rhetoric.
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o159/posindustries/facepalm/slackerz4.jpg

[Kaneda]

So I just saw Twilight, and I don't think it was that horrible. You know what to expect of it going in. I don't think it did anything terribly wrong in a "Batman and Robin" sense, it just carries all the book's flaws into film form. You can read a review of the book and that's pretty much a review of the movie.

One thing I don't get is why Stephanie Meyer decided to throw in some evil vampires just for the sake of conflict, when she had some better potential conflict in the native american tribe/werewolves. I know the werewolves do come into play in the sequels, but I'd rather have 1 decent book/movie than 4 shitty book/movies.

[bluestarultor]

My friend's girlfriend dragged him to Twilight. He didn't have words for how bad it was. Not that he didn't try, but he never got past the first three words of his sentence before saying "ugh!" and trying to start over. He finally took advantage of his limit and managed to squeeze out "it was bad."

I left it at that.


Also, Seil, no offense, but the grammar nazi in me is absolutely screaming at your brother's review.


I dunno, maybe it's just my friend's bias, but I was with a bunch of other guys who'd also been subjected to it and there seemed to be an irreconcilable consensus that their girlfriends were dead wrong and the movie wasn't worth seeing.

[Aerozord]

Two Cents

I do not hate that these types of movies exist. Nor that people like them. I just hate that we are a society that preffers these over movies with, you know... depth

[NonCon]

My coworkers were complaining that they cut too much out and that the movie should have been three hours long.

Jesus Christ.

[Runswithnopants]

My girlfriend likes the books, but I'm lucky in that she understands that they're crap. She reads it for the same reason I watch Naruto: It's junk-food entertainment. So, she puts up with my constant harping about the crappy writing and the Mary Sue characters and the crappy writing again.

Best of all: She isn't going to force me to watch it with her. Be jealous.

No, but seriously, it's crap, but then, we all have little obsessions with crappy things.

[Invisible Queen]

They kept the narration from the book huh? Sure, voiceovers almost never makes a movie worse. . .

I'm curious, does the narrator abuse adverbs as much as in the book? I'd love to hear someone pull off saying "The air filtered greenly" out loud.

[Seil]

Also, Seil, no offense, but the grammar nazi in me is absolutely screaming at your brother's review.

Imagine if that friend you speak of wrote a review and shot it out without proofreading it first.

[NonCon]

"The Air Filtered Greenly"

A techno club song by DJ Treesnplants

[Lumenskir]

So I was talking to my Twilight-loving friend in between her second and third viewing and she raised a pretty good point.

The average audience attendance for the opening weekend was estimated at 75 percent female, with about 55 percent of them being under 25. Basically, it's a group of girls who fantasize about being the object of desire of a pale boy who is awkward around normal human society, rarely ventures into direct sunlight, and is loving without having the sexual experience to be too pushy or demanding.

How come you guys aren't sarging around this place?

[Aerozord]

So I was talking to my Twilight-loving friend in between her second and third viewing and she raised a pretty good point.

The average audience attendance for the opening weekend was estimated at 75 percent female, with about 55 percent of them being under 25. Basically, it's a group of girls who fantasize about being the object of desire of a pale boy who is awkward around normal human society, rarely ventures into direct sunlight, and is loving without having the sexual experience to be too pushy or demanding.

How come you guys aren't sarging around this place?

because what you want in a fantasy isn't nessicarily what you want in real life. For example, it is the reason the guy is awkward that the women like, not the fact he is. Not to mention the fact this guy is also very attractive and inhumanly athletic. If you took the main lead and replaced him with a dumpy overweight guy I garentee female interest would tank.

There are other reasons but you get the idea. Plus alot of it is situational. Truth is in our society alot of women love the idea of a knight in shining armor (in this case abit too literal) coming in and saving her from her crushing normalcy. And in multiple cases saving her from actual physical harm as well.

Things like this sell because they basically take all the upsides to particular personality types without the negatives. As was stated before if an actual guy did alot of this stuff she'd probably hit him with a restraining order

[Donomni]

I just have to say this:

They sparkle.

WHY DO THEY FUCKING SPARKLE?!

I honestly couldn't care less about anything else, mostly because of this:

It made geeky fanboys out of the crowd that ridiculed us most. Camping out, lining up around the block, as big a crowd at Comicon as Watchmen? Girls, you are nerds. *one of us, one of us*

I just want to point out to every chick that's ever dissed a guy for waiting in line for Star Wars or Lord of the Rings, you have no moral authority now.

But... the SPARKLES. God.

[Tev]

I like to think of Twilight at this year's The Covenant.

I hated The Covenant for luring me in with the possibility of a popular movie about magery in the modern times and then forcing me to sit through an almost two hour Old Navy commercial with forgettable characters, poor script, and dumb situations. In that same vein, I was not happy with Twilight as it lured me in with the promise of a tale of the struggle between a girl and the vampire she falls in love with and then force me to sit though what amounted to almost two hours of the most awkward "date" in the history of movie making.

In all honesty the "sparkly" vampires thing didn't bother me as much as some of the other parts of the movie. I mean, I've seen vampires in movies bend the mythos in all manner of ways with the usual excuse being "Well, humanity got its story wrong and we're cool with that because it makes our un-lives easier." As far as I can tell this breed of vampire at least touched on some of the main points of the mythos: they drank blood, they were supernaturally strong and fast, and they avoided sunlight as the sun's rays would do something to them. Sure they were missing the fangs, but that was just the aesthetic choice of the author. They were pale and cold and dead......I think that 5/8 parts of the mythos being upheld isn't so bad. The movie didn't touch on garlic, but that one is usually thrown out anyway and religious artifacts were never brought up but I can let that one slide again as the main "religious" view expressed in the movie were Native American and not really Christian.

Really what killed the movie for me was the poor dialogue, sad acting, and the lackluster special effects that did not serve their purpose to distract me from the movie's other flaws.

[POS Industries]

How come you guys aren't sarging around this place?
Having a shred of dignity prevents it, mostly.

[NonCon]

POS, this is NPF... None of us have a shred of dignity.

[Runswithnopants]

POS, this is NPF... None of us have a shred of dignity.

I have a shred of dignity. It's not mine, 'cause I stole it, but I think it should count!

Anyway, is there a good review out there for Twilight? Anything positive at all?

Edit: And I don't mean by the fangirls, I mean by a respected film critic.

[Kaneda]

I have a shred of dignity. It's not mine, 'cause I stole it, but I think it should count!

Anyway, is there a good review out there for Twilight? Anything positive at all?

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/twilight/

I'M A HELPER!

[Fifthfiend]

POS, this is NPF... None of us have a shred of dignity.

I would agree except I've thought on all too many occasions that my last remaining shred of dignity had finally been stripped away, only to find that no, there was in fact one more waiting to be sundered.

[TopHatAssassin]

WHY DO THEY FUCKING SPARKLE?!


Well you see, their cell structure is apparently changed from globs of fat-chains to something resembling a crystal, and we all know what crystals do to light.

[POS Industries]

POS, this is NPF... None of us have a shred of dignity.
Don't lump me in with your lot!

[Aerozord]

Well you see, their cell structure is apparently changed from globs of fat-chains to something resembling a crystal, and we all know what crystals do to light.

that would make perfect sense


if humans didn't have skin

[Archbio]

The sparkles are their dead skin.

[Donomni]

It's still a sucky thing from anime that doesn't really work all that much put into a medium where it could never really work just for the hell of it.

[Janyel]

Who knew a book about a necrophiliac could go so far?

[Apotamkin]

The movie was good and almost exactly like the book so Stop bein a critic and pull that key board out of your behined.

[Irigriel]

The movie was good and almost exactly like the book so Stop bein a critic and pull that key board out of your behined.

Hahaha, you make me laugh.

Fifthfiend, can I keep him/her/other?

[Mirai Gen]

Skipping over that one!
I like to think of Twilight at this year's The Covenant.
I think I said it before, but seriously; every generation needs their The Craft.

We're going to keep being exposed to this provided hollywood keeps getting reminded all The New Wiccan Teenage Girls need a new movie to throw all their pubescent belief structure into in an aspiration to be different!

[Krylo]

I think I said it before, but seriously; every generation needs their The Craft.


Except The Craft didn't suck.

[Mirai Gen]

You're completely right, it didn't.

I never said it did.

EDIT: Okay lemme clarify because I re-read that and yeah, it does kind of sound like I said The Craft sucked, which god hell no it didn't. It was awesome.

The point I'm making is that it feels like Twilight is a part of the line of movies that come out of hollywood, aimed at teenagers, featuring all sorts of occult shit thrown in there. It feels like a bunch of hype built up around this movie simply to play off of the success of The Craft and all the movies like it that happened thereafter, good or no. Someone mentioned it being this year's The Covenant, to which I say, yeah, and I feel like it all eventually boils down to The Craft in the end.

As if they're trying to repackage the profit and originality of The Craft and sell it - again - to today's teenagers and provoke the same kind of reaction, except replace witchcraft and the Wiccan belief structure with sparkly-glowy vegetarian vampires. All the hype they're throwing on it gives me that kind of a vibe.

[Aerozord]

Perhaps but thats nothing new. How many superhero movies did they pump out after Spider Man did well? How many modern(ish) fantasy stories about children finding out they were special and magical appeared after Harry Potter? There are others but you get the idea

Hollywood finds a successful theme and redoes it again and again until the very thing that made the original good, often innovation and originality, is lost and homogenized to the point they all amount to the same basic movie.

Which then causes sales to drop and studios in all their wisdom think "oh I guess the market died" and they are right, it did, because they smothered it to death.

[Mondt]

The movie was good and almost exactly like the book so Stop bein a critic and pull that key board out of your behined.Why?

I have yet to see a non-half-assed pro argument as to why the books (and therefore, the movie, because you said they are almost exactly alike) for Twilight.

[Fifthfiend]

The movie was good and almost exactly like the book so Stop bein a critic and pull that key board out of your behined.

Hahaha, you make me laugh.

Fifthfiend, can I keep him/her/other?

I told you not to let your pets go all over the carpet.

I'm sorry but it's just going to have to go back to the pound where we found it.

...Honestly I should have let people play with it a little more before I put it to sleep. Oh well, too late now.


EDIT: Yeah and the Craft was awesome. I mean the difference between that and Twilight is the difference between a sillyassed wish-fulfillment fantasy, and a story about sillyassed wish-fulfillment fantasies and how they're ultimately stupid and bound to bite you in the ass, dolled up with bitchin' witchcraft.

[Bells]

Anyway, is there a good review out there for Twilight? Anything positive at all?

Edit: And I don't mean by the fangirls, I mean by a respected film critic.

There is a difference...?

[Donomni]

The movie was good and almost exactly like the book so Stop bein a critic and pull that key board out of your behined.


http://fc76.deviantart.com/fs39/f/2008/331/2/3/ERROR__by_LunaxLlama.png (http://lunaxllama.deviantart.com/art/ERROR-104730997)

I think this is pretty appropriate.

[EVILNess]

As if they're trying to repackage the profit and originality of The Craft and sell it - again - to today's teenagers and provoke the same kind of reaction, except replace witchcraft and the Wiccan belief structure with sparkly-glowy vegetarian vampires. All the hype they're throwing on it gives me that kind of a vibe.

Dude, I'd so fucking watch a Bunnucula: The Movie.

[Archbio]

Duckula! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhBnkJpsLHo)

[Aerozord]

http://fc76.deviantart.com/fs39/f/2008/331/2/3/ERROR__by_LunaxLlama.png (http://lunaxllama.deviantart.com/art/ERROR-104730997)

I think this is pretty appropriate.

Watch it

Fangirls are notoriously viscious, and tend to travel in packs

Just nod and back away slowly, and for the love of god dont make eye contact. They will sense your fear

[Tev]

Dude, I'd so fucking watch a Bunnucula: The Movie.Holy shit yes!

[NonCon]

I just got bitched out by a Twilight fan. It was high-larious!

[Tev]

I just got bitched out by a Twilight fan. It was high-larious!Do tell..... :eek:

[NonCon]

I wanted to do a rant about why I hate Twilight, and I'm kind of disappointed, because I feel I could've done better, but... Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITYpxicM2Uw).


And here is the message they sent me...

Okay, there's a lot of things I hate, but I don't have time to sit and rant on youtube about them. Of course, you have your own opinions, and I'm all for free speech, but this little rant totally pissed me off. Bitching about Stephenie Meyer having bad writing skills then using the cliche 'needle in a haystack' is pretty conclusive of how much an original writer you are. I'm doing a degree in English, and the Twilight Series is one of the best I've ever read. I also write fan fiction, so I know all about 'Mary Sues'- and Bella is not one. She's not pretty compared to the other characters, (she considers herself boring, unlike Mary Sues who are self absorbed and are portrayed as amazing) she's always thinking of others before herself and willing to sacrifice herself. Most author's first novels are self insertions- fact. Most people read Shakespeare in school, and because she did an advanced class before she moved, she OBVIOUSLY knows the class material. And yes, you must have skipped the part were Bella is reading through the collective works of Jane Austen. Oh dear, the end part of this rant made me even more mad! Where do you get off? Who the hell are you to judge what excellent writing is? Hopefully, seeing how you're so stuck up your own arse, we'll never see your name in print. Oh yeah, I dare, that's right, *dare* to call Stephenie's work excellent writing. I got Twilight before it was a bit hit, before there was a movie. I read it in a few hours, and ordered the rest straight away. Funnily enough, I've read Shakespeare and many authors you would probably define as 'excellent', but they didn't make me rush to read more, straight away. What defines great writing isn't the just the ability to use technique; imagery and metaphors aren't worth a whit if you don't engage with your reader.
Yeah, there was a longer and nicer version, but 'oh well'.

[Mirai Gen]

I'm doing a degree in English, and the Twilight Series is one of the best I've ever read. I also write fan fiction, so I know all about 'Mary Sues'- and Bella is not one.
HAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHA

Oh god, I just....hhahahahahahahahha!

[Runswithnopants]

HAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHA

Oh god, I just....hhahahahahahahahha!

Yeah, I stopped reading it around there. That just blew me away.

[The Argent Lord]

Okay, so, I'm gonna be the only dissenter here, aren't I? I'm a guy, and I read all 4 books and saw the movie. The books weren't nearly as bad as everyone seems to think. Certainly, they aren't masterpieces of literature, but they make for decent light reading. The fangirls overestimate them, of course, but that always happens with a fandom as obsessive as this. The movie was pretty awful, though. My girlfriend, who is a pretty big Twilight fan, agrees with me. Really, it seems like a lot of you are letting the fandom freak you out, just like was discussed fairly recently in another thread.

[NonCon]

I gave it a chance. I read part way in. It's not that it is the worst thing ever. It's that it's being treated as the best thing ever when it's mediocre at best.

The other thread was specifically about avoiding things because they were popular. There is a difference.

[Mirai Gen]

Naw I think Gir, or whatever he's called now?, likes the books too.

And I've been very clear that I hate the books/movie for reasons that go beyond the fandom. But that YouTube comment was especially hilarious, and I don't consider it at all connected to Twilight.

EDIT: I mean, come on, she proudly announces her experience with fanfiction and Mary-Sues. There's no way I could let that one slide.

[Smarty McBarrelpants]

This thread took a turn for mean quite quickly here. I mean sure the Twilight books aren't any good but I beat the vast majority of books most of you read aren't any good unless all you are reading is Proust and Balzac.
We all read bad books when we were young. We move on. I say let it go.

[Mirai Gen]

Well it's fun to gather and make fun of awful things, proof is the sheer volume of threads that pop up in relation to Control Alt Delete.

But we're getting pretty horribly off topic anyway, time for a close?

[NonCon]

If it were popular among little kids, I could see it. But half my training class is obsessed with these books. All of them are over 18, and half the people in the class who like the books are older than my parents. I can deal with it from little kids, but it feels like if someone was trying to argue that Dragonball Z is deeper and better than, say, Great Expectations, or something along those lines. Obviously an exaggeration, but I think you get my point.

EDIT: Probably. Sorry for sending this into a bit more angry territory.

[Smarty McBarrelpants]

If it were popular among little kids, I could see it. But half my training class is obsessed with these books. All of them are over 18, and half the people in the class who like the books are older than my parents. I can deal with it from little kids, but it feels like if someone was trying to argue that Dragonball Z is deeper and better than, say, Great Expectations, or something along those lines.


Ok, I thought it was mostly tweens and things.
But your example is terrible because DBZ is probably better than Great Expectations. Fuck Dickens.

[Kaneda]

Okay, so, I'm gonna be the only dissenter here, aren't I? I'm a guy, and I read all 4 books and saw the movie. The books weren't nearly as bad as everyone seems to think. Certainly, they aren't masterpieces of literature, but they make for decent light reading. The fangirls overestimate them, of course, but that always happens with a fandom as obsessive as this. The movie was pretty awful, though. My girlfriend, who is a pretty big Twilight fan, agrees with me. Really, it seems like a lot of you are letting the fandom freak you out, just like was discussed fairly recently in another thread.

No, I'm with you on that as well, I enjoyed what I've read for the most part. As people said, a lot of the reason for hating Twilight has to do with the enthusiasm and immensity of the fandom. While the books are very flawed, and far from great literature, I feel like a lot of the criticism, although valid, is somewhat unfairly intensely targeted at Twilight because of its fandom.

[Donomni]

Hey, I don't hate Twilight for existing, and I can easily just lol at the crazy fangirls, but I'll respect anyone who's sensible about this.

I only hate the sparkles. It's the only thing that really irks me.

Oh, I do need to address this:

unlike Mary Sues who are self absorbed and are portrayed as amazing

Mary Sues and their ilk are not hated simply because they can be perfect or selfish or shit, but because they take the story and make it their bitch, and keep it from having focus on other characters.

Mary Sues can be complete and utter losers, yet the story remains focused on said complete and utter loser at the cost of everything else.

[The Wizard Who Did It]

But your example is terrible because DBZ is probably better than Great Expectations. Fuck Dickens.
Naw. As someone who just recently tried to rewatch DBZ to relive his childhood, it really is just bloody terrible.

[Bells]

dont we hate twilight because it's a bad series that is being called a saga and it's worth 70 million dollars, even though most of us could write something just as good as twilight, or even better, but just might never make it to the victory road as fast and easy as twilight just did?

...because i really thought that's why we hated twilight....

[NonCon]

Pretty much. Twilight sucks and is famous and Stephenie Meyers is rich, and I can write better than her and she is more famous than I am likely to ever be.

[Kaneda]

dont we hate _____ because it's a bad series that is being called a saga and it's worth __ million dollars, even though most of us could write something just as good as ______, or even better, but just might never make it to the victory road as fast and easy as _____ just did?

I think people get used to crap being overrated after all these years.

[Bells]

Hell, i was ashamed to even go ahead with my own "Angel Vs Demons" novel just because i couldnt avoid all the anime influence in my writing (specially during fights...) and the fact that im an amateur at best... but twilight does make a case for "it's worth a shot" logic!

[Mirai Gen]

I officially think the well is dry, there's no blood in the stone, and the horse is dead.

I would like to say that I certainly wasn't complaining about the fans, I just think that YouTube comment was hilarious.

[Aerozord]

I accept that no matter what I write it will have moderate success, because I refuse to write books like this. Really I guess its abit of jealousy. If you can write better then this, its almost insulting that twilight has a loyal and rabid fanbase while stuff far better is ignored

[TopHatAssassin]

Okay, so, I'm gonna be the only dissenter here, aren't I? I'm a guy, and I read all 4 books and saw the movie. The books weren't nearly as bad as everyone seems to think. Certainly, they aren't masterpieces of literature, but they make for decent light reading.

No, I thought it was pretty decent too, I don't get all the bile here. It really does sound like a problem with the fanbase, how quickly this series has exploded into the mainstream. For some reason I can't get the image of jealous aspiring writers seething over the book's popularity out of my head.

But this isn't the place for ad hominem attacks on fellow forumites and the naysayers! It just seems like a very relative thing, like how all likes and dislikes are. You could say that Meyer can't write to save her life and that you could do better, and at the same time I could say that I wouldn't use a page from your book to wipe my ass with because it's so bad and my behind deserves better treatment.

Mary Sues can be complete and utter losers, yet the story remains focused on said complete and utter loser at the cost of everything else.


I thought this was actually the point of Twilight. Bella is a loser and this is her life. Her time in Forks, her adventures, her vampires. Nothing else really suffers because there's nothing else there to suffer. The other characters don't get all that much pagetime precisely because it's not about them, it's about Bella and her beau. And even then he's just the love interest. Completely unbelievable, sure, but what fantasy isn't?

I just think it's a novel and a series meant to be read for fun. You're not supposed to look for any deeper meanings because there aren't any, Meyer isn't trying to break any molds for vampires or werewolves because who cares, really. It's a book for teenage girls, the majority aren't going to read into it very far. It's like... a rollercoaster. You don't go to the park and sit on one and say, "Hm, this ride isn't good because the designer doesn't use this and this," or something like that. You go and sit on one because they're fast and they go whoosh. I would say Twilight is fast and goes whoosh, and to hell with any mythologic conventions or writing talent. She's coherent enough for me and she makes vampires who're built like tanks.

By the way, has anyone read that other novel of hers, "The Host" (I think it's called)? I'm just curious.

[NonCon]

I'm not just arguing that it isn't deep. I'm not saying everything should be deep. Some things are shallow and better for it. I am saying that she fails as a writer in several ways that aren't just opinion. A major one is Show vs. Tell. Even if you are just reading it for junk food fun, it could still be done better. It could have been written better, even looking at it as being as shallow as can possibly be.

[POS Industries]

For some reason I can't get the image of jealous aspiring writers seething over the book's popularity out of my head.
Actually, it's sort of the opposite for me. For pretty much my whole life, I'd been fairly happy with my writing talents and had fun writing short vignettes and scripts that got me some positive enough feedback, but I was never quite confident enough in my abilities to make a crack at writing a full novel. As a result, many of my ideas tended to be focused into comic writing. However, as I can't draw for crap, making these projects actually happen required the assistance of an artist, of which I could never find one who was reliable enough to take on the job. So, all my ideas floundered and died before they could get off the ground.

Having seen the success of someone like Stephanie Meyer, I am now convinced that writing a novel or even a series of them really is something that I could accomplish successfully and easily, and to that end I've begun outlining an idea that, so far, amuses me greatly.

She may very well inspire a whole generation of writers to step up and salvage the literary craft! If that's not something to be proud of, I don't know what is!

[Mirai Gen]

It's kind of the opposite for me, since I've spent lots of my time submitting query letters only to get enough rejection slips to wallpaper my room.

Though that book was pretty old and I wasn't that great at 19. So I'm going to keep at it regardless.

[POS Industries]

Yeah, I wouldn't dare try to publish anything I'd written at 19. Shit was terrible and Mary Sue-tastic.

Mid-to-late twenties seem to be the best time to get your authoring on, I say.

[Mirai Gen]

That's something that I've been hearing an awful lot, and probably what I'm going to stick to. Though I stand by my declaration that I'm 100% Mary-Sue free for the past few years.

Can't promise anything around 14-16 though.

[Runswithnopants]

This article seems relevant, along with the entire Twilight section of the site on which it is. (http://www.anti-shurtugal.com/wordpress/?p=54) (Avoiding the ending of a sentence with a preposition is incredibly awkward for some reason.)

[Regulus Tera]

I wanted to do a rant about why I hate Twilight, and I'm kind of disappointed, because I feel I could've done better, but... Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITYpxicM2Uw).

Why do you remind me of Mick Jagger?

[NonCon]

That's a very good question, and one that I fully intend to- *Runs*

[Mirai Gen]

Maybe we should lock the thread? Over PL and besides I'm getting really tired of the stupid ads we keep getting.

[NonCon]

What if I want to live the lifestyle I've always wanted at IMVU? What if I do? What then, DMD?

EDIT: Now it's a Twilight quiz... Now I'll never live the lifestyle I always wanted.

[Satan's Onion]

Haw haw, you losers get ads, I visit on Firefox with AdBlock.

Anyway, we look to have become just about all Twi-loathed out for now. Wouldn't want to overstrain ourselves, so when the next thing to hate comes around, we'll be rested and ready for evisceratin'.