Tim Kring: "Being Tim Kring is REALLY hard you guys, like for serious."

[Lumenskir]

Man, either Tim Kring is retarded, or he's retarded like a fox (http://tv.ign.com/articles/931/931067p2.html).

Note: I'm going to ignore the idiocy of whining about DVR's and post-live viewing making serials harder to watch, since this (http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/2008/11/20/heroes-serial-killer/) pretty much sends up how stupid a statement it is. Nice usage of "saps and dipshits" though.

So man, Heroes is apparently just a mess to have to cope with. A writer for each separate storyline apparently working independently (requiring another writer to mash them all together into a 'unified' whole), three directors on set at any given time, no real endgame in sight, the utter futility of trying to write a coherent time travel story, godmodded characters run amok...man, it is tough to be Tim Kring.

[Archbio]

His name is Tim Kring, so of course it's hard to be him.

So man, Heroes is apparently just a mess to have to cope with. A writer for each separate storyline apparently working independently (requiring another writer to mash them all together into a 'unified' whole), three directors on set at any given time, no real endgame in sight, the utter futility of trying to write a coherent time travel story, godmodded characters run amok...

Heroes: successfully translating the experience of DC/Marvel comic books to television.

[Mirai Gen]

Except you forgot the all important part of having some big wig handing you the Ten Comicbook Commandments of things you CAN NOT DO, and him breathing down your neck to make absolutely sure of that.

Yeah, not the best public relations moment for Kring, is it?

[Smarty McBarrelpants]

He hasn't said that half the episodes don't exist yet.

[Bells]

They waste almost 80 million dollars per season for this?

Man... i mean, Tim is clearly going "LOL IN UR FACE" to anyone who ever liked heroes with this... but they guys paying him should be extra pissed right now.

[Solid Snake]

Man, what I really love about Lost is how it's the anti-Heroes. Lost has a definitive enddate, a definitive vision in mind as to exactly what's going to happen, Lost was conceived with characters that actually intended to have meaning, depth, and durability, and Lost isn't written strictly for casual viewers with the intent of "restarting" everything with "new volumes" that effectively erase the importance of previous events.

Also, another thing Lost does differently involves the timing of when new episodes are written and produced. Lost is written in such a way -- even reshot, when necessary -- so that the creators can actually respond to criticism by immediately addressing said criticism in future episodes. In other words, Lindelof and Cuse made their ship foolproof by being flexible enough to even get the actors to reshoot additional material if they're ever called out on a discrepancy they missed. They address the problems immediately. Best example was in Season Three, interaction with Ben and Locke was added in an episode so Ben could inform Locke, and the viewers, that in fact "the box" he had referred to in a previous epsiode was a metaphor. This new bit of dialogue was explicitly added to counter perception after The Man from Tallahassee aired that the box was "actually literal," a perception the writers of the episode did not intend.

Also, Lost's writers often explicitly are forced not to stick with a single character's story. Cuse and Lindelof wrote a Desmond-centric episode together in Season Four that built off an episode in Season Three they did not write. Instead, every writer involved with the series is forced to read a "manual" or "bible" kept by a single writer who follows every episode and jots down what could equivocably be referred to as a guidebook to the entire series. Abrams and Lindelof started the "bible," and now I forget the name of the guy who maintains it, but they actually have a single guy on Lost's staff whose sole responsibility is to check new scripts against the ongoing "bible" and keep the series consistent.

So basically my solution to Kring would be watch that show Lost and learn a thing or three about good storytelling from it.

EDIT: Also, after two and a half years of superhero skits, Kring's taking their powers away? So what, we're going to be left with "Heroes, but they're not Actually Heroes Anymore?" I could understand that being a deft move if, like, they'd been superheroes for a freaking long time, like five seasons worth or something, but they've only just been skimming the surface of their superpowers. Sounds like a ludicrous move if it's true.

[Kroze Gamegod]

Abrams and Lindelof started the "bible,"

Actually thats a common misconception...
Abrams really hasn't had anything to do with the show since he helped get it to greenlight besides guest directing a couple episodes in place of Jack Bender (Who is sooo fucking amazing...). Abrams has actually been kept away from Lost as much as possible and he is fine with it. He knows not to mess with Lindelof and Cuse's baby.
He was just a name they needed to help sell the show. Lieber has had more to do with the show then Abrams.

The funny thing about what you said Snake is if you remember Kring in the first season when he was talking about Heroes and was outright dissing Lost. He kept going on and on about "How those Lost guys were just making it up as they go along" (Which anyone who bought the season 1 DVD where Lindelof states they have a set story that will last them about 5 seasons or so... which they are sticking to that plan.) and how "Lost doesn't answer anything and has no structure for their story" when it was in fact Heroes all along who was guilty of everything Kring was saying in his own rantings.

[Sporticus]

Also, how Kring came out a few days after the Lost finale announcement and said that Heroes was going to be only five seasons.

[Mike McC]

Also, how Kring came out a few days after the Lost finale announcement and said that Heroes was going to be only five seasons.No, Kring only said they had plans for five seasons, not that it was going to end after those five. But he's changed said plans since he said that 2 years ago.Also, after two and a half years of superhero skits, Kring's taking their powers away? So what, we're going to be left with "Heroes, but they're not Actually Heroes Anymore?" I could understand that being a deft move if, like, they'd been superheroes for a freaking long time, like five seasons worth or something, but they've only just been skimming the surface of their superpowers. Sounds like a ludicrous move if it's true.I'm pretty sure he's referring to them having to hide thier powers and live kinda hush hush in secrecy in the next chapter, not that he's taking everyone's powers away. Only person so far that matters that got depowered was Peter, and that was because they wrote themselves into a corner with his godmoding.

[Solid Snake]

having to hide thier powers and live kinda hush hush in secrecy in the next chapter, not that he's taking everyone's powers away. Only person so far that matters that got depowered was Peter, and that was because they wrote themselves into a corner with his godmoding.

Sorry Mike, but based on tonight's Heroes preview, shown right after (was it Survivor or The Office? I forgot which network it's on), it appears that in fact, the Heroes will all be losing their powers after a second eclipse.

Yup. Terrible plot twist.

RE: Abrams, I apologize for the error, I was just quoting Wikipedia on that one. I do know that one staff writer for Lost is solely responsible for updating the "bible" that I presume Lindelof started, at any rate.

[Bells]

Oh! they recalled the Eclipse thing? I thought they had forgot all about the Mystical side of Heroes and went full onboard with the "Genetic Science Did it all!" bullshit...

Tim Kring is so funny.... thinking that Heroes will last 5 seasons like this...

[Fifthfiend]

I'm going to be honest - I only clicked on this topic in the distant hope that Tim Kring had threatened to incinerate the interviewer with his radioactive hands.

[Mesden]

Man, what I really love about Lost is how it's the anti-Heroes. Lost has a definitive enddate, a definitive vision in mind as to exactly what's going to happen, Lost was conceived with characters that actually intended to have meaning, depth, and durability, and Lost isn't written strictly for casual viewers with the intent of "restarting" everything with "new volumes" that effectively erase the importance of previous events.

Also, another thing Lost does differently involves the timing of when new episodes are written and produced. Lost is written in such a way -- even reshot, when necessary -- so that the creators can actually respond to criticism by immediately addressing said criticism in future episodes. In other words, Lindelof and Cuse made their ship foolproof by being flexible enough to even get the actors to reshoot additional material if they're ever called out on a discrepancy they missed. They address the problems immediately. Best example was in Season Three, interaction with Ben and Locke was added in an episode so Ben could inform Locke, and the viewers, that in fact "the box" he had referred to in a previous epsiode was a metaphor. This new bit of dialogue was explicitly added to counter perception after The Man from Tallahassee aired that the box was "actually literal," a perception the writers of the episode did not intend.

Also, Lost's writers often explicitly are forced not to stick with a single character's story. Cuse and Lindelof wrote a Desmond-centric episode together in Season Four that built off an episode in Season Three they did not write. Instead, every writer involved with the series is forced to read a "manual" or "bible" kept by a single writer who follows every episode and jots down what could equivocably be referred to as a guidebook to the entire series. Abrams and Lindelof started the "bible," and now I forget the name of the guy who maintains it, but they actually have a single guy on Lost's staff whose sole responsibility is to check new scripts against the ongoing "bible" and keep the series consistent.

So basically my solution to Kring would be watch that show Lost and learn a thing or three about good storytelling from it.

You know, I like Lost a whole lot, but holy cow dude.

[Mike McC]

Sorry Mike, but based on tonight's Heroes preview, shown right after (was it Survivor or The Office? I forgot which network it's on), it appears that in fact, the Heroes will all be losing their powers after a second eclipse.

Yup. Terrible plot twist.Do you realize how often those preveiw spots are misleading/overdramatic? Really, I wouldn't base much off of them.

Not saying it isn't going to happen, just saying that those spots may not be the best source for the info.

[Solid Snake]

Ehh, Lost isn't my favorite TV show.
Not even close, actually.
I just think it's a show stylistically similar to Heroes that actually succeeds, and in that regard Heroes could learn a lot from it.

[Mesden]

Ehh, Lost isn't my favorite TV show.
Not even close, actually.
I just think it's a show stylistically similar to Heroes that actually succeeds, and in that regard Heroes could learn a lot from it.

They are not even a little alike in anything other than, like, they both had Greg Grunberg (Matt Parkman in Heroes, Pilot in lost!).

Like so not similar it's hilarious.

But I shall elucidate on my previous post. It does not matter that Lost is or isn't your favorite show, it is how you like, went on a totally rabid snugglefest with it then compared it to a show nothing like it (except for Grunberg!) and stuff.

I mean they both rely heavily on character centric story, but short of "Flashbacks that reveal a character's past omghoworiginal," they go about it entirely different ways. Mostly because of superpowers.

Anyhow, Lost is pretty consistently good, except when it tries to add new characters (the exact opposite of what Heroes should do at this point), but Heroes' successful parts are, like, way mega super awesome and probably trump any Lost episode I've seen. (I'll take Company Man over any Lost Episode thusfar, for instance).

Edit: You know in regard to that last little passage I wrote, it's kind of ironic. One of the biggest, absolutely hugest differences between Lost and Heroes style is that Lost ALWAYS has a central character in an episode, always revealing more about them, whereas every episode of Heroes is about multiple characters revolving around each other aside from one: Company Man. Heroes' best episode did better at what Lost does regularly, probably the biggest example of my reasoning here, and probably a heyuge reason why a lot of people at the end of season one had a huge "heroes>lost" diatribe going.

[Lady Cygnet]

I was hoping that the eclipse depowering only affected the genetically manipulated characters rather than the ones that were born with powers. Unfortunately, it either affects everybody, or more characters were engineered than I previously thought.

Either way, it's starting to boil down into banal tripe. I'd watch Lost, but I couldn't sit through a single episode. (Sorry, Lost fans.)

ETA: Enjoying an hour of time with my partner and daughter watching the show on Mondays doesn't make me a sap or a dipshit--it makes me someone stupid enough to actually like something this assclown created and watch it when he airs on broadcast television.

Bravo to alienating the fans who can't fucking afford "to watch it in a superior way."

Bravo and fuck you, Kring.

[TheWolf13]

The thing that I hate most about Heroes is that I keep watching it. Every time I think that a show about superheroes would be impossible to screw up Tim Kring opens his mouth.

[Solid Snake]

They are not even a little alike in anything other than, like, they both had Greg Grunberg (Matt Parkman in Heroes, Pilot in lost!).

Like so not similar it's hilarious.

I respectfully disagree with that statement.
Yes, Lost and Heroes have different plots insofar as one is about superheroes and the other is about ordinary human beings stuck on a deserted island. However, structurally speaking, both are similar to each other; they're both dramatic, action-adventure serials with emphases on sci-fi/fantasy mythologies, convoluted conspiracies, and every episode centers around feasible character development and there's plenty of plot twists.

They're certainly not comedies, and they really follow a path that the X-Files blazed for them. And to succeed, as you so ironically pointed out, Heroes really does need to borrow a bit more of Lost's formula. I agree with you in regards to Company Man being Heroes' highlight; unfortunately, Heroes hasn't stuck to that formula as much as it should have.

[Mike McC]

So, Lost and Heroes are similair in that they are seriels with complex plots that can be considered science-fiction. Really, that's about it.

I mean, you could compare Law & Order and CSI to each other because they are both cop procedurals until you're blue in the face, but the fact remains that they are very different shows.

[Mesden]

I respectfully disagree with that statement.
Yes, Lost and Heroes have different plots insofar as one is about superheroes and the other is about ordinary human beings stuck on a deserted island. However, structurally speaking, both are similar to each other; they're both dramatic, action-adventure serials with emphases on sci-fi/fantasy mythologies, convoluted conspiracies, and every episode centers around feasible character development and there's plenty of plot twists.

They're certainly not comedies, and they really follow a path that the X-Files blazed for them. And to succeed, as you so ironically pointed out, Heroes really does need to borrow a bit more of Lost's formula. I agree with you in regards to Company Man being Heroes' highlight; unfortunately, Heroes hasn't stuck to that formula as much as it should have.

What, no, Heroes does the exact opposite of Lost's Formula except for one grandstanding episode where the best character is clearly the best. Company Man was the one permissible exception because Bennet was such a powerful character as to warrant his own grandstanding episode, whereas everything else is exposition on lots of people at once in bits, so everyone's building up to one point. Totally totally different episodic formulas.

Also Lost is less Sci Fi than just overwhelmingly mysterious. Heroes isn't overwhelmingly mysterious at all, considering they rap most the big secrets up within their own season, whereas Lost, as you said, has a humongous, less flexible overarching plot.

Why hey there's another obvious dissimilarity.

Like seriously, they both operate on entirely different scales. "Serial Drama" is about as close at it comes, because whereas Heroes is super ridiculous superpowers sci fi, Lost is "craaaazy stuff we're not gonna tell you about" adventure, myth-esque stuff. The closest thing they've come to obvious sci fi was the sonic fence, the rest still hasn't been explained yet!

[BitVyper]

Also Lost is less Sci Fi than just overwhelmingly mysterious

Oh come on; it's pretty clearly all Excel's fault.

[Mesden]

I'm pretty sure A Wizard Did It.