Quantum of Suckass (Solace? Something like that...)

[Wyndon]

Wow. Just wow.

Okay, so I just got back from the midnight showing of this movie.

I hated this movie.

Spoilers!

First of all, what the fuck was up with Matthis? Or however you spell it. He was kind of important to the whole "traitor" shenanigans. Back in Casino Royale, Matthis was the one who tips of Le Chieffre (however you spell that) and tells him about the GPS. But guess what? In this movie, they say he's innocent.

How does that even make sense? Then how does LeChieffre know about the GPS in bond's arm? And the rest of the whole capturing him? I don't know, what the hell. This really really bothered me because it created a plot hole for Casino Royale AFTER THE MOVIE WAS MADE.

Okay, next: What is up with the serious lack of plot in this movie? It's seriously 1 hour and 30 minutes of action, and 15 minutes of plot. And guess what. Those fifteen minutes sucked. Little to no character development, no real plot, a disappointing let down (water? Okay, if you're going to take the simple, yet natural route, DO IT BETTER! I was SO let down), a ridiculous amount of benediction (how do you pass a lie detector test for 8 years...AND LIE?! Does not make sense. I was so annoyed...) and really, NO interesting characters.

Typical sob story my parents and sister died when I was a kid I want revenge. I'm so sick of this plot. Please, be a little bit more original than that.

And then the 2 minutes donated to Vesper at the end of the movie? Left so many unanswered questions.

AND WHAT THE HELL IS QUANTUM?! They never went into detail about what it was, why it was, how it was, etc.

I mean, they almost hinted at the Prime Minister being in on it but then cut that line off completely.

And lastly, please can someone tell me WHY THEY REFUSE TO LET ANYONE KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON IN THESE ACTION SCENES?!?! They didn't stay on one camera for more than .5 seconds. I counted 3 screen changes in one second. THREE!! I had no idea what was going on some times.

So annoyed.

Long story short, I rate this movie 4/10. Very disappointing, I hope someone else enjoys it more, and can answer my questions/respond to my qualms.

The upside? Daniel Craig is still a badass Bond.

(edit: reason I gave it a 4? Bond gets laid when he needs to. Effin' pimp!)

[MFD]

Mathis didn't tell LeChiffre anything in CR. It was Vesper all along.

When M points out that Vesper's guilt means Mathis wasn't the traitor, Bond replies that it means only that Vesper was a traitor.

They left me with the impression that Mathis wasn't a traitor, but Bond would trust no one.

[synkr0nized]

If this movie is that bad, it's just further proof that Bond movies are terrible when they have no book to back them (Anything past Goldeneye, for example...).

[RickZarber]

Oh come now, there were plenty of terrible Bond films prior to GoldenEye.

I was planning to go see the midnight showing last night, but had to cancel. Have plans to see it on Wednesday now... It's gonna be tough staying spoiler free until then.

[Ryong]

I watched it the other day and I spent the whole time going "whaaat?" because the plot was all over the place. The action scenes and random stunts are pretty good, though. Especially Bond causing a motorcycle and its rider to backflip in order to steal said motorcycle.

[Funka Genocide]

I'm still going to go see it, even if it's just Borne Identity rehash I'm sure it will have it's redeeming moments. And honestly, Bond films are action films, not really drama. They put on the glossy veneer of political intrigue so that you feel a bit less guilty after watching than you would say, Death Race, but when all is said and done you paid your money to see a suave motherfucker shoot people and get the girl, with a few nifty super-science gadgets thrown in as a bonus.

[Bells]

Are they still pulling that shit where they have bond films with no bond gadgets? because that would make this movie suck for me...

[Smarty McBarrelpants]

but when all is said and done you paid your money to see a suave motherfucker shoot people and get the girl, with a few nifty super-science gadgets thrown in as a bonus.

In space!
Man Moonraker was awesome.

[RickZarber]

Are they still pulling that shit where they have bond films with no bond gadgets? because that would make this movie suck for me...Am I the only person who never cared for Bond gadgets and is thankful they've been phasing them out? I mean, I love most of the Bond movies, but it's not the hollowed-out-volcano-lairs and cars with rocket launchers that do it for me...

[TDK]

To answer a question, quantum as a noun can mean a moment. So Quantum of Solace=Moment of comfort.

[RickZarber]

Actually, at least in the short story the name comes from, it refers to "amount". As in the quantum of solace that lovers give their partner in a relationship. If you don't have it, the relationship is doomed. That's the short story, mind.

[TDK]

Oh. Never heard of it.

[RickZarber]

A bevy of helpful links:

Quantum of Solace (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/For_Your_Eyes_Only_(short_story_collection)#.22Qua ntum_of_Solace.22) was originally published in the May 1959 issue of Cosmopolitan magazine, first collected in For Your Eyes Only (http://www.amazon.com/Your-Eyes-Only-James-Novels/dp/B00149MZN6/ref=pd_sim_b_16), and recently re-collected in a self-titled book (http://www.amazon.com/Quantum-Solace-Complete-James-Stories/dp/0143114581/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1226719642&sr=8-3).

[Eltargrim]

Actually, at least in the short story the name comes from, it refers to "amount". As in the quantum of solace that lovers give their partner in a relationship. If you don't have it, the relationship is doomed. That's the short story, mind.

This.

Went in expecting an action movie; was not disappointed. Plot seemed coherent enough.

@Wyndon: Quantum seems to be a secret society of big business heads, sort of a non-religious Illuminati, if the analogy can be stretched. The power behind the throne. In addition, in the near future, potable water will certainly become scarce enough to make this more than believable.

As to the lie detector; polygraphs are not infallible. Now, if they had fMRI'd him, that would break plausibility. Getting past 8 polygraphs is unlikely, but not so much that it broke my suspension of disbelief.

I did not expect much character development, so what I got pleased me. As for the gadgets, they're in the near-future science-fiction category, which always makes me happy. Most were fairly plausible as being seen in the next 10-20 years.

The one thing that did bother me a bit: If you're using hydrogen fuel cells, why do you have hydrogen lines running through the walls? Hydrogen does not work like that.

[synkr0nized]

The movie was not as bad as the OP makes it out to be.
It's not as good a "Bond movie" as it could have been, but it's still enjoyable and all that.

[Magus]

It was disjointed but exciting enough to make me overlook it. Not nearly as strong a film as Casino Royale or even some of the past James Bond movies such as GoldenEye, but on average it was far superior to idiotic movies like The Man With The Golden Gun or Die Another Day.

Really, it was some of the traditionally Bond things still left in that ended up bothering me. For example, the consulate worker that intercepts Bond in Bolivia almost immediately jumps into bed with him, even before he'd said and done anything very witty at all. I expect at least a ten-minute interlude with Bond gabbing before that happens. Also, she was wearing the most ridiculous clothing I've ever seen, especially for a CONSULATE WORKER. What the hell was that thing?! A purposefully wrinkled trenchcoat-mini-skirt-dress with nothing under it, and a low bustline to show her...flat upper chest because she wasn't wearing a push-up bra. Who does the costumes for these movies? Also, her oil-soaked corpse seemed a reference to Goldfinger, but it only happens once, so it seems entirely out of place (especially since what Greene was actually after was water, not oil--he's NOT an oil baron, why is he identifying himself as such?)

The hydrogen building was just stupid and mind-numbing. They actually have a character within the movie go "SOUNDS UNSTABLE" as a form of extremely hokey foreshadowing. Well why the hell would they have built it in the first place?

Oh, and the product placement in the movie was annoying simply because it was ridiculously out of place at certain points. The chick pulling up in the little electric car from whatever company and going "GET IN!" was just ridiculous. Advertising Aston-Martins in a Bond movie is one thing, advertising, I dunno, TOYOTA PRIUSES is just stupid.

EDIT: Oh, and this being a direct sequel to Casino Royale I think hurts it. They should've just jumped in with Mr. White in the trunk as the only reference to the earlier film. I've actually seen Casino Royale and trying to remember the plot was murky to me--for the dozens of people who were just now seeing Quantum of Solace, they probably felt rather lost. One problem with it is even people like me who saw the first movie felt lost--even in direct sequels, some summarizing of the events of the former movie should probably be made, better connections made, more exposition, etc., so we can get back up to speed. Thus the ending is a little confusing to even people who've seen Casino Royale, completely confusing to people just now watching Quantum of Solace.

[Lumenskir]

Man, I dunno what you were expecting when you went in to see this Wyndon but I'd give this a B(+) at least. The only thing I can really fault it for is not being as new a revisioning as Casino Royale, and the fact that it's position as part 2 of a trilogy (or so) means everything can't be wrapped up in an extra 45 minutes of explanation.

The most cogent criticism of the movie I've read is that while Casino was the Batman Begins of the Bond series, Quantum isn't the Dark Knight (that pushes the themes harder and better and whatnot). While that is valid, I think this new generation of Bond is more concerned with not being...well, retarded, while still being entertaining. This movie had that in spades. It certainly passes the "just enough plot to move the characters toward a goal" test of story, and the action was pretty good (although I would have liked more great car sequences instead of the plane part. Keep the boats coming however..

For example, the consulate worker
I didn't find it that outrageous. Like M said, she was a desk worker and probably knew about Bond through hearsay and rumor. I just thought they were pushing "the most renowned playboy/badass upgraded your room and then invites you for sex" angle.. As to the whole Goldfinger oil-death, nobody knew that Greene was lying about the oil yet, so he was probably still playing them.

[BitVyper]

Saw it, enjoyed it. Not as good as Casino Royale, but that's tough competition. The action scenes could have been directed better.

[R|Я]

A bevy of helpful links:

Quantum of Solace (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/For_Your_Eyes_Only_%28short_story_collection%29#.2 2Quantum_of_Solace.22) was originally published in the May 1959 issue of Cosmopolitan magazine, first collected in For Your Eyes Only (http://www.amazon.com/Your-Eyes-Only-James-Novels/dp/B00149MZN6/ref=pd_sim_b_16), and recently re-collected in a self-titled book (http://www.amazon.com/Quantum-Solace-Complete-James-Stories/dp/0143114581/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1226719642&sr=8-3).
I know. When I first heard about it, I said "ARE YOU SERIOUS?" Then I found out they just took the name. :D

The movie itself, ehhhhhh... Not as bad as some other ones, but not particularly good. It followed the standard "Bond meets girl, Bond saves girl, Bond helps girl overcome giant asshole and save the day" formula that they used with Pierce. Only this time, the giant asshole is working with one of the villains from the Captain Planet series, and M has decided to do absolutely nothing plot relevant (oh wait that's every film, my bad).

It's nice how Bond can always find some abandoned construction site or dilapidated structure to destroy while he fights. He seems to care a lot more about property destruction than human lives, judging by the body count. And my hopes were so high during the scene where all the Quantum members meet at the Opera(?). After that it was back to confusing crapville though. I was perfectly ok with Mathis though, as they neatly tied up all the loose ends by killing him in a really hilarious and pointless way. I mean, what is going through Bond's head? "well, guess I better use this corpse as a bullet shield. Oops."

(how do you pass a lie detector test for 8 years...AND LIE?! Does not make sense. I was so annoyed...)

I mean, they almost hinted at the Prime Minister being in on it but then cut that line off completely. Well, lie detectors are notoriously bad (and why MI6 would even bother with them, I don't know), but you're right about the PM. Wish that had been flushed out a bit more.

The action is fine, but the camerawork goes back to the Bourne Ultimatum style of "look at this, don't look at that, look at this, DON'T LOOK AT THAT! Look over here, no here!" And to expound a bit more on M, she's completely worthless in this one. I mean, at one point she fires Bond and basically places him under arrest, only to let him go 20 seconds later after he walks by smirking, as if to say "yeah, I beat up your guys in the elevator, what are you gonna do about it?"

And finally, the one point that gets me: Why did we keep fighting about the oil vs not oil thing? I didn't hear anyone going "well, looks like Ms. Masterson must've stumbled on a goldmine" in Goldfinger.

I guess in the end, I'm not sorry I payed 8 bucks to see it, but I certainly wouldn't again.

EDIT: One of the big redeeming features of it for me was how people (who weren't Bond, the girl, Greene or that other guy. Screw names.) acted pretty rationally in this one for a change. Just more like you would expect if this were to happen to them in real life.

DOUBLE EDIT: I also liked when M was talking to Bond about him shooting the bodyguard and throwing him off the building, you could totally see that he wanted to argue "well now, I didn't shoot him..." :D

[RickZarber]

Saw it tonight. Don't get the negative hype at all.

I only had two issues with it: One, the scene where they set up the link between Mitchell and the geologist in Haiti is so rapid-fire and over so quickly that I didn't get a chance to comprehend it, much less absorb it. I was forced to just go along with it. Having to stay on your toes to follow the plot isn't a bad thing, but some of it was just too fast. Two, I hate Bond leaving Mathis in the dumpster. Practicality is one thing, but I felt that was out of character even for this rougher Bond.

Other than that, I loved it. Nods a'plenty to previous Bond material. (The opening credits sequence had visual cues to the sequences from Dr No and From Russia with Love, Camille's story is similar to Judy Havelock from the short story For Your Eyes Only, Bond warning the Canadian agent that her boyfriend works for Quantum is reminiscent of the mission he's on in 007 in New York, when Haines' body guard falls off the roof it's almost identical to Roger Moore's most "cold blooded" kill in The Spy Who Loved Me, and of course there's the obvious Goldfinger reference.) And they brought Bill Tanner back! That made me so happy! Though I still think that, of the four films the character's appeared in, only GoldenEye got his characterization exactly right. But still! Now we just need Moneypenny...

Okay, so the fast paced editing is bugging people, but I really liked it. There were a few times that I had trouble following it (most of Bond chasing Mitchell I couldn't tell who was who, same with his knife fight with the geologist) but other than that I thought it was very effective. How many times have we seen a chase sequence composted almost entirely of wide shots? How many times have we seen a fist fight that was Left Hook, Right Hook, Karate Chop, DONE? Quantum of Solace put you right in the action and made you feel every hit of it. I imagine you'd get confused with that much going on around you anyway. It's the kind of thing I'd want to watch again to try and catch things I'd missed.

Also, my cousin pointed out that not only was the cutting rapid, it also jumped about. But that makes perfect sense! Dr No was famous at the time for its jump cuts during the fight scenes! It's only logical that this Bond film would take that to extremes along with everything else.

Okay, I'm rambling, but here's other things that made me happy: Felix Leiter getting more screen time. Lack of "Bond gadgets". Quippy one-liners replaced with gallows humor. A Bond girl that does not sleep with Bond. (He didn't always get the girl in the books--so it's both realistic and true to the source!) Mathis being exonerated (him being under suspicion at all was my most hated point with Casino Royale). A villain who was fun to watch, even if he wasn't easy to hate. Awesome title cards whenever we place-hopped. Creative editing during some scenes--wasn't just plain-old straightforward storytelling. And the movie didn't feel too short, despite its short run time. Finally, we actually got some closure! That may be a first in a Bond movie.

There's probably more that I wanted to talk about, but I'm sure it'll come to me later. The point is, I dug it and will see it again.

...I still don't like Jack White's singing.

[Wyndon]

Okay, so I thought about it, and I mean, this movie's not as horrible as I made it out to be. But it's still pretty annoying at times.

I felt that a lot of it was extremely predictable.

However, since I already made a post about what I don't like, I actually would like to make a post of the things I did like in the movie (there were certain cool parts).

1) I actually liked the consulate worker sleeping with him so fast and that they actually skipped that scene! It was rather amusing. "Can you come help me find the stationary?" Cut to a naked bond. Freaking hilarious

2) I felt that the car scene in the beginning was rather well done. Some of the action scenes were good. Did not care for the plane scene...at all. I actually yawned during that part, I believe. I kiiiind of liked the scene where bond is chasing that traitor in the beginning ish, and goes upside down to shoot him. That was a really cool shot, well directed at least. But I didn't know what was going on, who was hitting who, and who had the advantage. It reminded me of bourne, and I liked that.

3) I'm really glad the bond girl didn't sleep with him. It humbled bond a lot.

My one really big qualm I don't think I mentioned before though: Where was the James bond charm? The sharp, witty, charming humor? . To me, this seemed like in the 5th Harry Potter book/movie, where Harry Potter kiiiind of becomes an angsty little teenage bitch. Now, given, James bond is not an angsty little teenage bitch. But he was so serious all the time, it really just annoyed me at times. It felt to seriously-focused, but that fell short, because the plot didn't reaaaally hold up the whole serious aspect of the movie. They could have instilled so much more fear of Quantum...

Seriously, they picked the cheesiest, least intimidating villain. Ever.

[BitVyper]

Well, lie detectors are notoriously bad

Real life example; someone doing research taught a bunch of prisoners to beat lie detectors by clenching their sphincters. That was some time ago, so I assume technology has gotten better, but yeah, lie detectors are hideously unreliable.

And to expound a bit more on M, she's completely worthless in this one. I mean, at one point she fires Bond and basically places him under arrest, only to let him go 20 seconds later after he walks by smirking, as if to say "yeah, I beat up your guys in the elevator, what are you gonna do about it?"

To be fair; I don't think she was trying too hard to bring him in. I mean; who sends an attractive young woman to collect BOND. M, while looking at the poor girl's corpse, even clearly acknowledges that he can seduce anything that moves. She's either incredibly stupid, or trying to give him leeway while maintaining plausible deniability. To me, everything she does indicates the latter.

[R|Я]

To be fair; I don't think she was trying too hard to bring him in. I mean; who sends an attractive young woman to collect BOND. M, while looking at the poor girl's corpse, even clearly acknowledges that he can seduce anything that moves. She's either incredibly stupid, or trying to give him leeway while maintaining plausible deniability. To me, everything she does indicates the latter. Read: completely worthless. :D

Two, I hate Bond leaving Mathis in the dumpster. Practicality is one thing, but I felt that was out of character even for this rougher Bond. I actually liked that part, as Bond occasionally does repulsive things in the books as well. Okay, so the fast paced editing is bugging people, but I really liked it. Well, as a cinematographer who shoots the same way, I can tell you you're one of the few. Maybe 1 in 20 people likes seeing a constant blur of action that constantly leaves them going "huh?" But this reminded me a lot of the Bourne Ultimatum rooftop scene, where most of my friends were going "eh?" while I said "this is great!" Lack of "Bond gadgets". I think this is funny because they promised more Bond gadgets in the hype last year. A villain who was fun to watch, even if he wasn't easy to hate. I almost felt sorry in the desert scene. Awesome title cards whenever we place-hopped. Yeah, I noticed that too. Reminded me of the same cool effect they had on that show Fringe. Finally, we actually got some closure! That may be a first in a Bond movie. Not really. Who is Quantum? What are they going to do now that Greene is dead? Is this the tip of yet another, larger iceberg? These are some of the questions I was left with. ...I still don't like Jack White's singing. Aaaah, we just don't agree on anything, do we, Rick? :p However, the mixing of the opening track was done wrong.

Actually, I liked the movie, it just didn't compare at all to Royale (which might also have been slightly overrated seeing as it was being compared to Die Another Day). Also, I'm a critic. :cool:

[BitVyper]

Read: completely worthless.

That's not what I said at all. Even if you do oversimplify it.

Anyway, she does pretty much everything her role in MI6, and as a character in the film requires, so I'm not really sure where you're coming from. She's an administrator, and this is an action movie. She has to exist, but the film is about her field agent. If you want The Adventures of M, you're in the wrong genre.

Edit: The climax in TAoM, by the way, is when she finds the employee who stole her lunch last week.

[Mirai Gen]

The hydrogen building was just stupid and mind-numbing. They actually have a character within the movie go "SOUNDS UNSTABLE" as a form of extremely hokey foreshadowing. Well why the hell would they have built it in the first place?
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd80/AwXomeMan/morbo.jpg
HYDROGEN DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY

I might see this. Casino Royale was slick enough but I'm not sure I'm liking what I'm hearing. Of course I have notoriously easy-to-please tastes so I'll probably like it.

[Lumenskir]

My one really big qualm I don't think I mentioned before though: Where was [spoilerybits]
Wait, you're just now noticing they excised that part? In Casino Royale he effectively takes a shit on that cheeky bastard business when he cuts off the bartender asking him for his drink order. It's even more relevant in this movie since he starts off driven by a self-loathing well of revenge.

On the gadget side, was I the only who noticed the ridiculous Minority Report system MI6 apparently has wired throughout the building? I kind of like that they've relegated the techy things to unobtrusive tools (like the facial recognition camera and the wall mounted compute display) instead of making it so that we're forced to wait until the chance comes for Bond to escape a harrowing situation by using the magnetic polarizer-reverser shaped like an innocuous packet of animal crackers.

Also, and this just might be me and my friends looking too much into this but when the concierge/whatever from the Hydrogen Hotel was escaping her interrupted rape, she gets off the bed and allows the camera to see up her dress. Me and all my friends swore we saw a flash of vagina, but I've been trying to rationalize it away since this was a PG-13 movie and things like that shouldn't happen.

[Ryong]

On the gadget side, was I the only who noticed the ridiculous Minority Report system MI6 apparently has wired throughout the building?

The gigantic touch-screen table was freakingly awesome and you know it.

Changing the subject, okay, we get what the Quantum means...but Solace? Seriously, the heck is up with that name?

Edit: *reads the previous page* Ooh. Okay. Hrm. Right. Carry on.

So, hey, next Bond movie will still have what appears to be drug-induced imagery at the opening credits?

[R|Я]

That's not what I said at all. Even if you do oversimplify it.

Anyway, she does pretty much everything her role in MI6, and as a character in the film requires, so I'm not really sure where you're coming from. She's an administrator, and this is an action movie. She has to exist, but the film is about her field agent. If you want The Adventures of M, you're in the wrong genre.

Edit: The climax in TAoM, by the way, is when she finds the employee who stole her lunch last week. 1. It was a joke. Lighten up.

2. If her role in MI6 involves faffing about for part of the movie and not taking any real action other than to stop looking busy every once in a while to yell at Bond some more for stopping the bad guys from killing her then yes, yes she did pretty much everything the role required. Sure, MI6 has no control of internal affairs, she could at least try to get someone like the CIA or something on her side. But no, fuck the Americans.

3. I like to think she'd have someone pistol whip him a few times to get the message across. I mean, that's her lunch, man.

[RickZarber]

Well, as a cinematographer who shoots the same way, I can tell you you're one of the few.I didn't know you were into filmmaking. (Or if I did, I'd forgotten.) We should hang out.[Re: closure]Not really.I should have said emotional closure. But in any case, if Quantum is the new SPECTRE, there's no point in giving things away this early in the series. In fact, these films really mirror the first two Connery films in that respect: first one dealt with a single underling of the organization, the second introduced the organization itself.Actually, I liked the movie, it just didn't compare at all to Royale (which might also have been slightly overrated seeing as it was being compared to Die Another Day). Also, I'm a critic.Yeah. I went in to it expecting to like it, and for the most part, if I'm in that mindset, I can turn off my critical viewing.On the gadget side, was I the only who noticed the ridiculous Minority Report system MI6 apparently has wired throughout the building? I kind of like that they've relegated the techy things to unobtrusive tools (like the facial recognition camera and the wall mounted compute display) instead of making it so that we're forced to wait until the chance comes for Bond to escape a harrowing situation by using the magnetic polarizer-reverser shaped like an innocuous packet of animal crackers.This, definitely this. And yeah, the Mi6 stuff was a little too futuristic for my tastes. The video game has the same style, but you can actually see the computer code as files are found and booted up. I think it looks a little better that way.She could at least try to get someone like the CIA or something on her side. But no, fuck the Americans.I gotta admit, I actually liked that aspect.

Also, I feel better about my views on the movie as I just spent the past hour on the phone with my brother and he pretty much feels the same as I do with regards to this movie. Which is kinda funny, cause we were split on the last one, where he really hated the changes they made to the ending of the story and I didn't mind as much...