It's over NINE THOUSAND!!!

[Lord of Joshelplex]

So yea, lets reminisce about Dragonball. Yea, its campy as hell, the characters are fairly generic, and the majority of them look the same, and yea, the majority of Z is powering up all arc to 1 hit the villain, and yea, the story is barely existant and not exactly interesting, but damn, theres just something about, y'know? What was your favourite parts, least favourite, etc...

My favourite part was in the end of GT, seeing SS4 Gogeta. That was jsut straight up badass.

[Mirai Gen]

Dragon Ball Z started out okay, Dragon Ball was great, and everything just started to go to hell after we started having Fusion Dances and Potara Earrings and energy-amplifying old dudes and Z-Swords and Time Chambers and blah.

The Androids era was okay, Future Trunks was a big favorite of mine (How I first coined my name back when I was, you know, 13), but I swear I couldn't stand GT. It was the ultimate sign of forced sequel-rehashing.

It had one good thing that came out of it. ONE.

This. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ijio5RqtjE)

[Red Fighter 1073]

I actually used to love Dragonball Z back in the day. I could never really get into Dragonball and the same with GT. I used to think it was a great show, but the whole "I'll keep powering up by doing Fusions, using Earrings, going SSJ 15" just got to be a little too much. I would have to agree that Dragonball is probably the best because it was at that point where you felt like Goku was still special and powerful but not so insanely powerful that he and enemies would just nonstop keep leveling up and until Goku finally killed the enemy. Almost made it more believable in the sense that Goku felt like a person with superhuman strength, but still somewhat human in that he wasn't freaking godlike as in Dragonball Z.

I always thought the sagas were interesting enough but after Cell and especially Buu I just really got sick of how the only way to keep the enemies from dying too fast is to make regenerate their body parts like with Cell and Buu.

All of the hundreds of different powerups got to be a little bit too much, but I actually liked the ideas of SSJ4 and Saiyan Monkey-things though I can't say that I ever really watched GT. The Freeza Saga had to be my favorite because it felt like Goku had finally reached that ultimate point of Super Saiyan. I mean, it was supposed to be this 1 in a million type power for Saiyans and then after that every single person, even the little kids were going SSJ, SSJ2, and SSJ3 which just kind of ruined it.

[Smarty McBarrelpants]

I never really got into it but some of my friends used to read the manga and apparentely the 8 episode powering up silliness of the cartoons is nowhere present in the manga. I watched most of the cartoon mostly because it was a good way to just blob out after school.
I heard some rumour that all the cartoon filler episodes occured because they were making the cartoon at a similar speed to which the comics were being created and they needed to hold back though I'm not sure if that's true.
But Cell and Buu are the exact same villain. How are they any different! They both continually regenerate and gain power and change form by absorbing their enemies. One comes for the past, the other the future. Silliness!

I always felt that Super Saiyan was a ridiculously wasted concept. You became one in a fit of primal emotion so I felt the Super Saiyan should also be full of that emotion, usually anger, and be uncontrollable. Mostly they were either A) Childish or B) Just a powerup. Though this was just my not-very-interested interpretation. Maybe they did explore it somewhere.

[Regulus Tera]

Dragon Ball is the only shounen anime with more than a hundred episodes that I've been able to watch in its entirety repeatedly.

We Gotta Power indeed.

[Mirai Gen]

Well it was great when Goku was the Super Saiyan.

It was forgivable when Vegeta broke his Super Saiyan barrier through sheer jealousy.

It was...understandable when Trunks powered up because his mentor Gohan got killed by the androids and he found his dead body.

Once a 10 year old Goten and Trunks broke their barrier just by practicing I was like "Okay seriously I am not believing this stupid retcon bullshit."

[Azisien]

It's only healthy to refer to a liking of DBZ in the past tense. Kind of like Power Rangers and Pokemon and all that, good when we were younger and it didn't matter. Go back and watch DBZ right now and you should quickly realize how totally retarded all those shows are, absolutely totally retarded.

But that's not always a bad thing in itself. The bad thing would be if you watched it and didn't realize how totally retarded it is.

[Bells]

DBZ should've ended with the Cell saga... it would be an amazing Ending...

the Show itsefl is pretty good, if you watch it one epi a day, it's just right. But 1 epi a week is painfull... too slow.

The show itself is greatly fun. The fighting is totally over the top, and yet convincing to a level that i've never seem any other anime do yet.

I mean, When Vegita's Final Flash Bounces off the Planet after a direct hit, it's amazing

And Gohan going SSj2... you could totally face the screen and KNOW that some shit would go do big time. It's one of the best anime momments ever

Also... Brolly is the best Villan, he deserved more than movies...

Scratch the Majin Boo saga, just Make a Saga about Brolly

[Regulus Tera]

Broly is cool and all but I was always bothered by how him (and the other movies) just didn't fit within the continuity. The one I really really liked though was the story of Future Trunks and Alternate Gohan. Awesome stuff.

I wouldn't want the Majin Buu saga to be eradicated though. I believe Akira Toriyama said once that he would've liked to make an spin-off series about the wacky adventures of Buu and Mister Satan. If he ever gets around to doing that I'd be the first to buy the manga.

[Seil]

Gotenks was the epitome of awesome.

[I_Like_Swordchucks]

Kid Gohan pounding the hell out of baddies every time he got pissed off, culminating with SSJ2 and beating Cell to a pulp was what made the show for me. That and Piccolo. Piccolo is the only action figure I still have from when I was a kid out of sheer sentimental value.

And I refuse to consider Dragonball GT anything other than a fan-made spinoff. Gohan and Piccolo became pointless, and Gohan was supposed to be the single strongest character in the whole thing. It made me sad.

My favorite of the movies is actually the Bardock movie. That was awesome, even if the good guys lost.

[Regulus Tera]

the majority of [the characters] look the same

I would like to argue that, even if the majority of the extras look the same, most of the important cast is decidedly distinct from one another, Gohan and Goten being the exception to the rule. Most importantly, one thing that always struck me from Toriyama's art was how detailed and beautiful the backgrounds were, a fact that was more evident in the manga. It made the battles feel, to me, even more epic, as I could imagine how devastating it was for the Earth to feel the impact of these godlike beings fighting against one another.

It's also one of the reasons why I loved Dragon Quest VIII. I wouldn't doubt that Toriyama was also involved in the scenery for the game.

[Red Fighter 1073]

The thing that I like/hate about Toriyama's art is that you will recognize a character designed by him. It helps his image in that his work is easily recognizable but to be honest, I've never really played Chrono Trigger because the SNES was mostly before my time because the N64 was my first major system and when I see Crono, I always think he looks exactly like Goku except for a few changes in hair color and other stuff.

And I refuse to consider Dragonball GT anything other than a fan-made spinoff. Gohan and Piccolo became pointless, and Gohan was supposed to be the single strongest character in the whole thing. It made me sad.

Yeah, I had forgotten about that. GT really did make everyone except Goku and Vegeta in some cases just feel extremely useless and now I remember how badass Gohan was even when he was a child with his tail. How did Goku and Gohan end up losing their tails completely. I know they've turned into Saiyan Monkeys or whatever they're called, but even if their tails are cut off while in the Monkey form, I always thought it grew back.

[synkr0nized]

The show itself is greatly fun. The fighting is totally over the top, and yet convincing to a level that i've never seem any other anime do yet.

I lol'd. I mean, it's kinda true, but I'm sure there's better fights.

Also, even the Cell Saga could have been cut, leaving the end of Namek as the end of the series (though I admit I liked Cell and am still bitter that he lost ever).

[Aerozord]

Bardock movie was what you look for in an anime movie story. It was well made, showed you how typical Saiyans were, good story.

Brolly was what you wanted in action. I still remember Brolly Uppercutting Trunks and you just hear that crunch, awesome. When Brolly litterally ignores their strongest attacks. Truth is the legend was right, there is one true super saiyan, and it was Brolly. Unlike the other villians you survived for more then five seconds against him for one reason, he wasn't done making you suffer yet. Only sad part was the ending, it just screamed plot device

Storywise, to me it peaked at Frieza, but really I think it needed Cell saga. Things were so nicely finished. Earth was at peace, Gohan was the new protector of Earth just in case, Goku could finally move on. But oh no, they weren't done milking this series dry. There were some good moments, and although it began dropping after Frieza it TANKED after Cell. So much didn't make sense

Can someone tell me why after Gohan got his nice mystic boost, where he was beating Buu normally, he didn't just go Super Saiyan when Buu got more power? And I like Gohan and all but how many times are they gonna unlock his inner power, because that was atleast the third. GT... I'm not even gonna acknowledge that it existed

I liked the idea that Gohan didn't find a new level of Super Saiyan, he just had an awesome power he was able to call up. Like we say him do throughout the series, just now he can at will. It was even better in the manga. Remember the Cell Jrs? Yea they didn't turn to dust, here is an example. He punches one, and his brain flies out the other side. Want to know the real reason they ran? Because they were pretty freaked out when their siblings body parts started raining down.


Once a 10 year old Goten and Trunks broke their barrier just by practicing I was like "Okay seriously I am not believing this stupid retcon bullshit."
I think Vegeta put it best. "Did I miss something? When was the transformation into the legendary warrior of the Saiyan race reduced to a childs play thing?"

Oh and because of this threads title, ahem
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/aerozord/what9000.jpg

[Lord of Joshelplex]

Brolly is the best Villan, he deserved more than movies
Same with Bojack. He was a total badass.

Scratch the Majin Boo saga
I hated almost that whole saga, if not for Vegito, I woulda hated all of it.

[I_Like_Swordchucks]

Can someone tell me why after Gohan got his nice mystic boost, where he was beating Buu normally, he didn't just go Super Saiyan when Buu got more power?

Technically he would have gotten weaker. That form was considered "Ultimate Saiyan" and was stronger than an SSJ3. In fact, even when he unlocked it the Elder Kai told him to just act as if he was going Super Saiyan, and Goku noted that though the massive power increase happened, there was no physical appearance.

The advantage is that though he didn't look like the Super Saiyan, it was also a permanent transformation and took no effort for him to maintain (unlike Goku with SSJ3, which tired him out quickly).

So in short, while he had black hair, he was a Super Saiyan already. Just a really really advanced one.

[Donomni]

Anyone still miffed about the fact that if you're not a Saiyan in part or whole in that universe, you pretty much suck?

I mean, DBZ was teh fun and lulz, but man, did they ever promote racism.

Wait, or is it Specism? Hmm.

[Aerozord]

Thats why I said it peaked at about the Frieza saga. The others may have been weak, but atleast they could do something.

Technically he would have gotten weaker. That form was considered "Ultimate Saiyan" and was stronger than an SSJ3. In fact, even when he unlocked it the Elder Kai told him to just act as if he was going Super Saiyan, and Goku noted that though the massive power increase happened, there was no physical appearance.

The advantage is that though he didn't look like the Super Saiyan, it was also a permanent transformation and took no effort for him to maintain (unlike Goku with SSJ3, which tired him out quickly).

So in short, while he had black hair, he was a Super Saiyan already. Just a really really advanced one.
which would make alot of sense, if in GT we didn't see Gohan always going super saiyan instead

[Lord of Joshelplex]

Wasnt that only during the time he was mind controlled by Evil Mind Control Guy?

[I_Like_Swordchucks]

which would make alot of sense, if in GT we didn't see Gohan always going super saiyan instead

Which is why GT doesn't count. As far as Akira Toriyama (and the manga) goes, GT is completely non-canon. It completely disregards what few rules Toriyama had actually established in the DBZ universe...

Some fans will argue that Gohan lost his Mystic form, as well as his SSJ2 form (since all we see him do is SSJ) due to a lack of training, but I tend to think that the writers for GT were somehow incapable of maintaining a coherent world without Toriyama's input.

After all, you'll also note that SSJ Gohan in GT is dramatically weaker than Mystic (Ultimate) Gohan was at the end of Z. Even with SSJ, he was weaker than base level Goku, whereas he should have been Mystic and comparable with SSJ3 Goku.

[Regulus Tera]

Which is why GT doesn't count. As far as Akira Toriyama (and the manga) goes, GT is completely non-canon. It completely disregards what few rules Toriyama had actually established in the DBZ universe...

B-B-But he did the designs for SS4 Goku, Vegeta, and Super Android 17!!

Totally making fun of people arguing for Dragon Ball canon.

Seriously though, even Dragon Ball Z* disregards the rules set by Dragon Ball Z at least once (see Cell regenerating even though his head was blown off).

*Wait, it's not Dragon Ball Z, it's Dragon Ball! The anime producers were dumb and couldn't comprehend the haute couture of the nomenclature used by the manga. Hence Dragon Ball Z != canon.

[Lord of Joshelplex]

Really though, are the rules actually important? Just watch Aryans beat up aliens and enjoy.

[Bells]

the only good thing out of DB GT was Super Sayan 4 Goku... which was still overkill, and gave us Tight-jeans super sayajin 4 vegetta... but still.....

What i hated the most was the powerlevel jumps though... During Cell, the peak was 25 million. By the end of GT we're taping on 60 million... but less than 1 million is already enough to blow a whole planet.

The reason why Cell saga was great and bad at the same time is because it actually had continuity. You had Freeza who was clearly said to be a Conquer of worlds, and the most powerfull villain in the whole Galaxy. But all the androids are 5-6-7-12 times more powerfull. It only made sense for they being androids built on earth only to kill Goku on secret.

Then, here comes GT (where everybody is way over 20 million in power) and BANG every bad guy is more powerfull, and now Goku is a douche who just wants more powerfull enemies. Protecting people and being a father comes third bananas.

[Regulus Tera]

Then, here comes GT (where everybody is way over 20 million in power) and BANG every bad guy is more powerfull, and now Goku is a douche who just wants more powerfull enemies. Protecting people and being a father comes third bananas.

May I ask how is that different from the original Dragon Ball? How does Super Android 17 being stronger than Baby who is stronger than that other guy who could transform into liquid metal differ from Piccolo being stronger than Tien Shin Han who is stronger than the Red Ribbon who is stronger than Jackie Chun?

Goku always wanted to save the Earth, but c'mon, even then he said it was all about fighting stronger opponents. His character is probably the first one who established that cliché in anime.

[Lord of Joshelplex]

It was indeed.

[Bells]

May I ask how is that different from the original Dragon Ball? How does Super Android 17 being stronger than Baby who is stronger than that other guy who could transform into liquid metal differ from Piccolo being stronger than Tien Shin Han who is stronger than the Red Ribbon who is stronger than Jackie Chun?


Well, there is a Logic for the power level, but as far as i can tell it's just Fan made.

Dragonball: Strongest guy is piccolo. A Alien Demon who has control over his own power, so he is pretty strong. Good Guys are limited to Super-human powers because of lack fo resources and need to get more stronger.

DBZ: Frieza was supposed to be the strongest thing ever.
Androids: they were made to be extremely more powerfull than goku, and fuel for cell
Cell: the powerfull android that needs the others to become so powerfull
Majin Boo: Basicly it's a intergalatic Demon trapped for thousands of Years

Then, we have the movies... which are basicly Non-canon.

And then GT: Which dosent make sense

[Regulus Tera]

Yeah, I'm not following your train of thought at all.

It was indeed.

Which is one of the reasons haters should stop saying Dragon Ball sucks because it has cliché characters. Something like that should be called revolutionary, or, at the very least, trend-setting. There are far more valid reasons to not like the series.

[Emong]

Fun Fact: DBZ was supposed to end after the Frieza Saga, but continued due to fan protests.

So all the other Super Saiyan forms were just Toriyama trying to find ways to extends the series.

[Lord of Joshelplex]

Which is one of the reasons haters should stop saying Dragon Ball sucks because it has cliché characters. Something like that should be called revolutionary, or, at the very least, trend-setting. There are far more valid reasons to not like the series.

I believe the "Character with no nose aknowledging he lacks said nose" also was created in DB, as well as the "Badass dude who fears women."

[I_Like_Swordchucks]

Don't forget perverted kickass old men. They may have been around beforehand, but Dragonball made it popular.

It seems to be one of the oldest series I know of that consistently have reformed villains.

[Lord of Joshelplex]

I think DB INVENTED Shonen.

[Ryong]

I think DB INVENTED Shonen.

Fist of North Star did. DB refined it.

And, seriously, I loved DBZ. The first time Goku went SSJ and Gohan's rage-to-SSJ2 were the best moments. Freeza was very well fleshed out as a villain that really, really deserved to die. Then come back and get humiliated and killed. Coming back from hell and dying again in GT wasn't bad, but it's one of the few things in GT I don't hate.

[Regulus Tera]

Fist of North Star did. DB refined it.

I'm pretty sure manga for boys is older than the eighties. Case in point, Mach GoGoGo, Mazinger Z, and even Astro Boy. Dragon Ball mayhaps defined it into what it is today.

One should not underestimate the impact of Hokuto no Ken nevertheless. My theory is that Japan's current fixation with pretty haired boys is the result of overexposure to the levels of manliness Hokuto no Ken contained.

[Aerozord]

I'd still probably say alot of cliches in DBZ are cliche' because of DBZ. There probably were examples of these things before DBZ, but it was probably the popularity of DBZ that made it so wide-spread.

[Mirai Gen]

Fist of North Star did. DB refined it.
If by 'refined' you mean 'turned every shounen manga and anime into contesting battles between Power Level Fucking Huge and Power Level Fucking Huger only to find Magical Power of Deus Ex Machinae to fix it' then yes, it certainly did refine it.

A majority of the things I get tired of is how Goku or Ichigo (and to a lesser extent, Amidamaru or Naruto) manage to frequently defeat galactic crisis after galactic crisis and yet somehow are completely dumbfounded when a galactic crisis that is more powerful manages to pop up. It really kills most anime to define characters as 'the biggest threat' and yet frequently disregard that title to introduce a new villain.

Part of the reason shounen doesn't appeal to me; I don't like having it spelled out that 'Character A is so incredibly powerful, oh man, you don't wanna fuck with him, he killed Villain A, only to introduce holy shit it's Villain B! He's way more powerful' every story arc.

EDIT: To clarify, this is Dragon Ball Z I'm talking about. Dragon Ball was great because it showed Goku as a clueless 10 year old kid with more power in his pants than the ancient skilled martial artist master, only to totally shatter the tongue-in-cheek humor by making him an adult and having him fight the aforementioned galactic crises over and over.

[Aerozord]

Yea but in Bleach, Ichigo was never the strongest there was. He still isn't.

But I do see what you mean, but most of DBZ wasn't that. Freiza saga for example was mostly about the protagonists avoiding the big baddies since they knew in straight up fights they were screwed. One part I love is how Freiza went "fine I cant beat you, so I'll just take away your ability to breathe". They beat Raditz using more tactics then anything, as both were far weaker.

Granted eventually it was big climatic fight, but to me thats a good thing. It was after all a climatic fight.

Now Buu saga, now that was pretty much pure one-up mansship. It happened more in that one saga then the rest of DBZ combined

[Mirai Gen]

Cell and the Androids wasn't much better. "Oh crap, some dude in the future says we're going to die so we need to train like crazy!" Then he kicks them around like crazy so they run away and power up more.

Buu was just "Crap we can't kill this guy, he's too good!" followed by them kicking his ass and then he transforms into a new form which is even more powerful and repeat and rinse.

I know that talking about Bleach isn't really accurate but there's still the problem of Power Levels Versus Power Levels, when instead of showing opposing technique or superior strength/agility instead they just spend an entire episode having Villain whip Character's ass to show how good he is, so that way it's way cool when he gets trounced later on, and I really hate that.

[Lord of Joshelplex]

Ya gotta admit though, Kenpachi's ultimate attack/power was pretty sweet.

[Mirai Gen]

Well, yeah.

It's not that Dragon Ball Z doesn't have it's merits. It's that lots of the things that irk the everloving shit out of me in relation to plot stemmed from DBZ at it's truest origins so I've got a pretty big hate-on for it. That's why I like anime music videos. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdeqswrPgjw)

But let's talk about Dragon Ball. Tera informs me I am a buzzkill.

One of the things that I liked about it was that it was mostly about Goku being a little kid with more power than he knew what to do with. It meant that Goku, despite being ten years old was able to contend with and more often than not totally one-up Master Roshi and the villains he encountered.

[Aerozord]

Part I think I loved best about DB was that things like flying and energy waves were rare with only a few knowing them. In DBZ they kept adding new moves but by Cell everything had a been there seen it feel. The feel was abit deadened since I already knew alot of the powers, but it wasn't so bad since I had no idea when they learned them

Ya gotta admit though, Kenpachi's ultimate attack/power was pretty sweet.
Kenpachi's ultimate technique, fear as he now fights... with both hands!

[Lord of Joshelplex]

He 1 hitted a dude who was more or less invinceable.

[Aerozord]

to be clear I wasn't being sarcastic, I think thats awesome

[BitVyper]

which would make alot of sense, if in GT we didn't see Gohan always going super saiyan instead

Yeah, but GT is basically one big fanfiction. A bad one, at that.

I love Dragonball. It is still one of my favourites of all time, anime or manga. I love watching and reading it just to watch the art and storytelling evolve. I notice new things about it all the time.

I think it had some of the coolest looking villains of all time. No matter which arc, there were always neat character designs for the bad guys.

My favourite arc is probably Piccolo Daimyo. The Freezer arc is definitely up there though.

Then he kicks them around like crazy so they run away and power up more.

You know, everyone always says this, but it's honestly a major oversimplification of everything that happened in the Android/Cell arc. There were all kinds of little things that happened all over the place, and more than a couple subplots going on at the time. Even in the anime, what you saw of the actual training amounted to very short bits in between all the other stuff.

It's kind of ironic that you don't like the Buu saga, because they really returned to their roots in that one. It was much less serious, and more like oldschool DB.

[Mirai Gen]

It was much less serious, and more like oldschool DB.
Less serious? You have to be kidding. I don't know what's less serious about Buu killing everyone on the planet to give them a few hours. But then oh, it's okay, let's go get the Namekian Dragon Balls, which is especially nice because the Namekians just gave their dragon the power to revive the dead.

I mean come on - They went through the whole Kid Buu/Super Buu/Evil Buu/Majjin Buu cycle which involved, what, several characters kicking Buu around so hard he spit out his shitty personality and became more powerful.

Like I said, Dragon Ball Z is okay in the beginning. But when it turned Goku from the Super Saiyan, THE most powerful, THE best fighter, into Goku Is The Best But Every Other Saiyan Even The Half Saiyans Are Just As Good.

[I_Like_Swordchucks]

Like I said, Dragon Ball Z is okay in the beginning. But when it turned Goku from the Super Saiyan, THE most powerful, THE best fighter, into Goku Is The Best But Every Other Saiyan Even The Half Saiyans Are Just As Good.

I read somewhere that Toriyama intended for Gohan to have the potential to be the single strongest character in the series right from the start, due to hybrid superiority.

In fact, I do believe the only reason that Gohan wasn't the one who beat Buu at the very end was due to fan reaction of wanting Goku to be the one to do it.

[Bells]

Except for Pan, because Girls will always suck on fighting animes, unless it is Softcore porn material

[Lord of Joshelplex]

In fact, I do believe the only reason that Gohan wasn't the one who beat Buu at the very end was due to fan reaction of wanting Goku to be the one to do it.

Fan reaction made it go past the Frieza Saga too. That woulda been a fairly decent ending right htere.

Really though, how can someone like Pan, who's 1/4th Saiyan be expected to be comparable to full and halfs?

[BitVyper]

Less serious? You have to be kidding. I don't know what's less serious about Buu killing everyone on the planet to give them a few hours.

Which is pretty much just Piccolo Daimyo on a larger scale. Besides which, it wasn't really given too much focus, not nearly as much as Piccolo Daimyo's atrocities ("lets see which city we'll slaughter today"). Instead, you had stuff like Buu being a comic sort of character half the time, Akira Toriyama pretty much doing self parody with some of the fights, elder Kaioshin, the gumdrop fight, Mr. Satan, Gotenks. There were gags left and right, much more on par with classic DB. And DB has been using the dragonballs to bring people who got killed during the arc back to life since the Red Ribbon arc; the final arc just did it on a grander scale.

[Aerozord]

I do think the dragonballs got over used towards the end. The whole thing with them making Nemekian dragon able to bring multiple people back at once, was the definition of a plot device.

[Lord of Joshelplex]

One should not underestimate the impact of Hokuto no Ken nevertheless. My theory is that Japan's current fixation with pretty haired boys is the result of overexposure to the levels of manliness Hokuto no Ken contained.

Its like freakin Mad Max + Kung Fu! It doesnt get manlier then that!

[Ryong]

Except for Pan, because Girls will always suck on fighting animes, especially if it is Softcore porn material

I'm pretty sure that fixed it.

[POS Industries]

Except for Pan, because Girls will always suck on fighting animes, unless it is Softcore porn material
First of all, 18 would like to have a word with you.

Secondly, Toriyama intended for Pan to be ridiculously powerful (likely because he thought the idea of a tiny little girl wrecking everyone's shit was hilarious), but the jackasses that made GT decided to scrap that idea and make her beyond useless, which isn't exactly surprising since they did the same thing to everyone who wasn't Goku and Vegeta.

That's probably one of the main reasons Toriyama came back to work on the Super 17 arc, because it really seemed like a last ditch attempt to make the rest of the cast actually do something that had relevance to the story, 18 in particular.

[Bells]

First of all, 18 would like to have a word with you.

Secondly, Toriyama intended for Pan to be ridiculously powerful (likely because he thought the idea of a tiny little girl wrecking everyone's shit was hilarious), but the jackasses that made GT decided to scrap that idea and make her beyond useless, which isn't exactly surprising since they did the same thing to everyone who wasn't Goku and Vegeta.

That's probably one of the main reasons Toriyama came back to work on the Super 17 arc, because it really seemed like a last ditch attempt to make the rest of the cast actually do something that had relevance to the story, 18 in particular.

Who? The killer robot who became soccer mom because the Baldy monk had a crush on her? 18 is my favourite Female character on DBZ, by far... i was just pissed on how she got underused.

It was to the point were she was used as an device to Fade out Krillin! It would be awesome to see they fighting side by side. At least that...! because god knows we aint gonna get an episode about their feelings on DBZ... that's not DBZ at all! We will have and Funny cartoony episode were Goku and Vegeta learn to drive though...

[Mirai Gen]

He's saying that she was awesome but the reason she got underused is because they wanted to cash in on the "Goku and Vegeta are the best just because they are" thing.