Indiana Jones and the Something of Something

[Ryanderman]

Threadsurrection! Since it's coming out this week. EDIT - nevermind, apparently the powers that be decided it was better as a seperate thread. Sorry about that.

The movie premiered at Cannes, so reviews have started coming in. It's got 77% fresh on rottentomatoes, but it was 73% five minutes ago and 60% earlier today, so I expect it to keep going up as more reviews come in.

But there's really only one reviewer I ever put much stock in. Even when I disagree with him, I can see where Roger Ebert's coming from, and I always respect his reviews. Of course he openly admits to being an Indiana Jones fanboy, so his positive review is pretty biased. But I'm a fan too, so it's encouraging.

His review (http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080518/REVIEWS/969461084/1023) has some minor spoilers, but nothing not seen or hinted at in the trailers:
By Roger Ebert

"Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull." Say it aloud. The very title causes the pulse to quicken, if you, like me, are a lover of pulp fiction. What I want is goofy action--lots of it. I want man-eating ants, swordfights between two people balanced on the backs of speeding jeeps, subterranean caverns of gold, vicious femme fatales, plunges down three waterfalls in a row, and the explanation for flying saucers. And throw in lots of monkeys.
The Indiana Jones movies exist in a universe of their own. Hell, they created it. All you can do is compare one to the other three. And even then, what will it get you? If you eat four pounds of sausage, how do you choose which pound tasted the best? Well, the first one, of course, and then there's a steady drop-off of interest. That's why no Indy adventure can match "Raiders of the Lost Ark (http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/classifieds?category=REVIEWS01&TITLESearch=Raiders%20of%20the%20Lost%20Ark&ToDate=20081231)" (1981). But if "Crystal Skull" (or "Temple of Doom" from 1984 or "Last Crusade" from, 1989) had come first in the series, who knows how much fresher it might have seemed? True, "Raiders of the Lost Ark (http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/classifieds?category=REVIEWS01&TITLESearch=Raiders%20of%20the%20Lost%20Ark&ToDate=20081231)" stands alone as an action masterpiece, but after that the series is compelled to be, in the words of Indiana himself, "same old same old." Yes, but that's what I it to be.
"Crystal Skull" even dusts off the Russians, so severely under- exploited in recent years, as the bad guys. Up against them, Indiana Jones is once again played by Harrison Ford (http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/classifieds?category=search1&SearchType=1&q=Harrison%20Ford&Class=%25&FromDate=19150101&ToDate=20081231), who is now 65 but looks a lot like he did at 55 or 46, which is how old he was when he made "Last Crusade." He has one of those Robert Mitchum (http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/classifieds?category=search1&SearchType=1&q=Robert%20Mitchum&Class=%25&FromDate=19150101&ToDate=20081231) faces that doesn't age, it only frowns more. He and his sidekick Mac McHale (Ray Winstone (http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/classifieds?category=search1&SearchType=1&q=Ray%20Winstone&Class=%25&FromDate=19150101&ToDate=20081231)) are taken by the cool, contemptuous Soviet uber-villainess Irina Spalko (Cate Blanchett (http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/classifieds?category=search1&SearchType=1&q=Cate%20Blanchett&Class=%25&FromDate=19150101&ToDate=20081231)) to a cavernous warehouse to seek out a crate he saw there years ago. The contents of the crate are hyper- magnetic (lord, I love this stuff) and betray themselves when Indy throws a handful of gunpowder into the air.
In ways too labyrinthine to describe, the crate leads Indy, Mac, Irina and the Russians far up the Amazon. Along the way they've gathered Marion Ravenwood (Karen Allen (http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/classifieds?category=search1&SearchType=1&q=Karen%20Allen&Class=%25&FromDate=19150101&ToDate=20081231)), Indy's girlfriend from the first film, and a young biker named Mutt Williams (Shia LeBeouf (http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/classifieds?category=search1&SearchType=1&q=Shia%20LeBeouf&Class=%25&FromDate=19150101&ToDate=20081231)), who is always combing his ducktail haircut. They also acquire Professor Oxley (John Hurt (http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/classifieds?category=search1&SearchType=1&q=John%20Hurt&Class=%25&FromDate=19150101&ToDate=20081231)), elderly colleague from the University of Chicago, whose function is to read all the necessary languages, know all the necessary background, and explain everything.
What happens in South America is explained by the need to create (1) sensational chase sequences, and (2) awe-inspiring spectacles. We get such spectacles as two dueling Jeep-like vehicles racing down parallel roads. Not many of the audience members will be as logical as I am, and wonder who went to the trouble of building parallell roads in a rain forest. Most of the major characters eventually find themselves at the wheels of both vehicles; they leap or are thrown from one to another, and the vehicles occasionally leap right over one another. And that Irina, she's something. Her Russian backups are mostly just atmosphere, useful for pointing their rifles at Indy, but she can fight shoot, fence, drive, leap and kick, and keep on all night.
All leads to the discovery of a subterranean chamber beneath an ancient Pyramid, where they find an ancient city made of gold and containing...but wait, I forgot to tell you they found a crystal skull in a crypt. Well sir, it's one of 13 crystal skulls, and the other 12 are in that chamber. When the set is complete, amazing events take place. Prof. Oxley carries the 13th skull for most of the time, and finds it repels man-eating ants. It also represents one-thirteenth of all knowledge about everything, leading Irina to utter the orgasmic words, "I want...to know!" In appearance, the skull is a cross between the aliens of the Special Edition of Spielberg's "Close Encounters of the Third Kind (http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/classifieds?category=REVIEWS01&TITLESearch=Close%20Encounters%20of%20the%20Third% 20Kind&ToDate=20081231)" and the hood ornaments of 1950s Pontiacs.
What is the function of the chamber? "It's a portal--to another dimension!" Oxley says. Indy is sensible: "I don't think we wanna go that way." It is astonishing that the protagonists aren't all killed 20 or 30 times, although Irnia will beome The Women Who Knew Too Much. At his advanced age, Prof.Oxley tirelessly jumps between vehicles, survives fire and flood and falling from great heights, and would win on "American Gladiator." Relationships between certain other characters are of interest, since (a) the odds against them finding themselves together are astronomical, and (b) the odds against them not finding themselves together in this film are incalculable.
Now what else can I tell you, apart from mentioning the blinking red digital countdown, and the moving red line tracing a journey on a map? I can say that if you liked the other Indiana Jones movies, you will like this one, and that if you did not, there is no talking to you. And I can also say that a critic trying to place it into a heirarchy with the others would probably keep a straight face while recommending the second pound of sausage.


I'm excited and can't wait for this. Now only Dark Knight and Hellboy II need to be good to make this a perfect movie summer.

[Smarty McBarrelpants]

I'm still undecided how I feel about this movie. I mean Indiana was cool back when I was young but I think it'll just be silly now.
And this still just feels like a huge cash-in to me, on the scale of "Won't it be awesome if we do this" rather than any concern for the series as a whole. Like for example I was ok with Rocky Balboa because Rocky 5 was such a downer and didn't fit with the rest of the series and so the last film helped improved the series as a whole. Rambo 4, however, was ridiculous waste. I feel similar ways about lots of aspects of the Star Wars prequels, the best example being "Wouldn't it be cool if R2D2 could fly, that would be awesome".
As further example, see every comic book ever made.

[POS Industries]

Dude, we get it. You hate everything.

I mean, I'm not passing judgment on this movie here or anything but come on already.

[Savage Thinking]

Since this thread was brought back up, I'd like to mention that there's already talk of a fifth (http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=45131) Indy movie. Apparently, it would star Shia LeBeouf but having Indy come back similar to like his dad did in the Last Crusade. Leave it to our friendly neighborhood George Lucas to come up with such brilliant ideas for sequels..

[Smarty McBarrelpants]

Dude, we get it. You hate everything.

I mean, I'm not passing judgment on this movie here or anything but come on already.

But it's the fact that I love the original movies so much (except for Temple of Doom which wasn't as good as the other) that I'm so concerned about what's going to happen to them.
And I've never felt that George Lucas understands why people like his films and the more he makes the closer he comes to exploding it all.

Also: I totally love save points.

[POS Industries]

(except for Temple of Doom which wasn't as good as the other)
Yeah, okay, Temple of Doom did kinda suck.

But I dunno, I still have hope for this one. Conventional special effects and real sets have apparently been used more in this movie as opposed to CGI, the overuse of which I feel has become the Achilles' Heel of Lucas' more recent projects. I mean, yeah, corny dialogue too but that was always a property of Lucasfilm. I personally think it's easier for actors to really act when they're physically in the same environment as their characters.

But like I said they've hinted at aliens being involved somehow and so this can either turn out totally great or totally stupid. Still, my dad's excited so I'm taking him to see it. I expect to enjoy myself enough.

[Mauve Mage]

(except for Temple of Doom which wasn't as good as the other) Agreed, Temple of Doom kind of sucked. The woman was freakin' annoying and the kid was useless AND freakin' annoying. But Harrison Ford was shirtless in that film more than any other Indy film, so that gets some points in my book for still being moderately worthwhile. Because Harrison Ford? Yeah. He was hot.


As for this upcoming film, I have mixed feelings. I loves me some Indiana Jones movies for their plots and action sequences and pseudo-archaeological awesomeness, but I hate movies where the director gently hints that he's gonna replace the main character with an annoying kid in the future. Somehow I don't see Shia LeBouf or whatever being a suitable trade-off for Harrison Ford. DEFINITELY not a fair trade.


I'm still gonna go see it, though, on the chance that it will in fact be awesome.




Still waiting for Hellboy II!!!

[water]

I believe the Indiana Jones legacy should live on. Just like the undying James Bond. A lot of people still watch it even though the actors are always changing. Yeah sure, it may not be Indiana Jones anymore in the next 2, 3 or 12 sequels due to Harrison Ford's age, but someone has to take over! I'm sure George Lucas and Steven Spielberg can work something out, these guys are genuises with iconic films in their hands.

Now a good counterpoint would be the Star Wars prequels, however, you could conceed that the pair could pull it off in an amazing fashion with flair. Also Shia LaBeouf has to be at least a moderatly good at acting, otherwise Spielburg wouldn't have him for the role. This could be an amazing step up out of the Harrison Ford era of Indiana Jones, or a massive blunder that will ruin the entire franchise.

[Ryanderman]

I actually really like Temple of Doom, but I feel embarassed that I do. The heart-pulling-out scene gave me nightmares as a kid, but once I got over that and went back to watch it years later, it's pretty good. Not as good as Raiders or Last Crusade (which is actually my favorite, even a bit more than Raiders), but pretty good. Willie is definitely annoying, but I like Short-Round.

[water]

Yes I think I'd have to agree. With the Connery and Ford combo, it was absolutly amazing. I think my favorite part is the escape from the castle and the optical illusion of the rock bridge. In this new movie(Crystal Skull), did Connery actually decline a camo, or was that just an Internet rumor...?

[RickZarber]

I have to leave like right now, so I'll find the link when I get home tonight, but I'm pretty sure he declined, saying that retirement was just "too much damn fun."

[Doppler12]

Willie is definitely annoying, but I like Short-Round.

GOD DAMNIT I WANT SHORT-ROUND TO BE IN THE MOVIE

thats right, thats my wish, short-round to be in another movie because he rocked

[Ryanderman]

did Connery actually decline a camo, or was that just an Internet rumor...?

I think I remember reading that he said (ie, don't trust this) that if anything would tempt him to come out of retirement, it would be this. And later that he was tentatively offered the part, considered it, and declined.

[Toastburner B]

What's with all the Temple of Doom hate? I like Temple of Doom. I mean, it's not as well made as the other two, but I'll be darned if it isn't the most quotable.

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z318/Bhaunted/prs/werescrewed0fq.gif


Anyways, as for the Crystal Skull, I'm cautiously pessimistic. I'll be thrilled if it turns out to be good, but I'm going to assume that it's going to suck so that I'm not disappointed.

[Regulus Tera]

Because Harrison Ford? Yeah. He was hot.

Isn't he like 65 or something right now? I must give him credit for looking way younger.

I think this would be a bad time to confess the only Indy movie I've watched was The Temple of Doom. It put me off about looking for his other movies. If this one goes well I shall correct that.

[Ryanderman]

Yeah, Temple of Doom definitely isn't the first Indy movie you want to watch. It's movie where you say, "Ok. That was kinda weird, but it's Indy so it's awesome!" Whereas if you see it first, you don't know that Indy is awesome, so you can't say that.

[POS Industries]

I believe the Indiana Jones legacy should live on. Just like the undying James Bond.
Oh man, no. No no no no no. The Indy character works mostly just because it's played by Harrison Ford. Take "Raiders of the Lost Ark", for example. Any other actor would have just gone along with the script and had a huge sword fight with Nameless Arab Goon #16. Sure, it would have probably been quite energetic and the audience would have enjoyed it, but it would have been forgotten fairly quickly by the world at large.

Meanwhile, Harrison Ford decides he doesn't feel like it and asks if he can just shoot the guy, and Lucas goes with that instead. Instant movie gold.

[Mike McC]

Meanwhile, Harrison Ford decides he doesn't feel like it and asks if he can just shoot the guy, and Lucas goes with that instead. Instant movie gold.Harrison Ford saves George Lucas movies. I mean, he's probably the main reason the Star Wars movies were good.

[Mirai Gen]

What's funny about the 'just shoot the guy' scene is that it pissed the swordsman off that he didn't get his fight scene, yet it was more memorable because of that.

So in a strange way, he got what he wanted.

[Doc ock rokc]

What's funny about the 'just shoot the guy' scene is that it pissed the swordsman off that he didn't get his fight scene, yet it was more memorable because of that.

So in a strange way, he got what he wanted.
Its been nicknamed the Crazyswordsman Scene And its stated that he had the flu at the time and he could barely stand. so he improved instead of following Lucas
(note you have to re watch the movie to see this clearly)
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee300/wickedpearl/jones-1.gif
hes sweating and is pail and he locks like he would throw up in the begining

[Mike McC]

It wasn't the flu.

It was dysentery.

[Mirai Gen]

Don't think I'm going to see it until it's out on DVD.

Indiana Jones is awesome and all but I just don't have much incentive to go right now.

[POS Industries]

Saw it. Pretty good. Not the best of the series but certainly better than Temple of Doom.

Oh, and the internet never ceases to amuse me on this one. Apparently magic cups that belonged to Jesus and grant eternal life, holy boxes that will magically melt your entire body if you look at them with the lid off, and crazy magic mayans are totally okay but fuck you aliens are just plain ridiculous.

Never change, internet. Never change.

[Smarty McBarrelpants]

Saw it. Pretty good. Not the best of the series but certainly better than Temple of Doom.

Oh, and the internet never ceases to amuse me on this one. Apparently magic cups that belonged to Jesus and grant eternal life, holy boxes that will magically melt your entire body if you look at them with the lid off, and crazy magic mayans are totally okay but fuck you aliens are just plain ridiculous.

Never change, internet. Never change.

I always thought it was more the fact that all these things together in one place. It's like a DC comic.
And cause the stuff in the first three movies totally happened and the fourth one was made up to make more movies.
For those of you who have seen it what's the young guy like. I sense a horrid return of the ShortRound type character.

[POS Industries]

Think less Shortround and more Henry Jones Sr insofar as role filling.

[Elminster_Amaur]

Okay, so...The Crystal Skull? I think someone other than me has been watching too much Stargate SG-1.

Crazy rambling ensues within:
I'm thinking Lucas, because it seems like the line of though here was, "this episode is awesome, let's turn it into an Indiana Jones movie! We can even keep the aliens, and we can make the entire team Indiana, and Daniel Jackson's grandpa gets to be Shy Labooof (filled with Holes, by the way).

But, if you think about it logically, then you have to realize that shoving the Indyverse into Stargate's universe makes a lot of the shit Indy finds make a whole lot more sense. Holy Grail, Ark of the Covenant and crazy magic mayans? All covered by saying "the aliens did it." Of course, all three of those show up in SG-1. They used the Holy Grail to kill the Ori, they used the Ark to brainwash the Priors with its magical light, and the crazy magic mayans? Well, they're the giant aliens in the episode titled "Crystal Skull".

Its almost as if Lucas is planning on retroactively applying this stuff to his Indyverse, and then slapping a lawsuit on the owners of Stargate for copyright infringment.

Oh, and there were some hot girls walking into that opening tonight, as I drove by to get lunch on my break. XD

[B_real_shadows]

Essentially, he's like Connery, minus the age, scotish (or is it british?) charm and wit. And you got Shia lebouef.

I liked this movie, but when it comes down to it, Raiders and Crusade are better.

[POS Industries]

Crazy rambling ensues within:
Man, was this ever an accurate statement.

[Elminster_Amaur]

Of course it was accurate. I am not entirely mad. I know that I am insane at most times, and thus give adequate warning.

Was the movie worth the admission price?

[POS Industries]

Well, admission's only six bucks here, so yeah.

[Elminster_Amaur]

Wow, so cheap for a night ticket? It costs me $9 to go to a movie at night, and almost $7 for a matinee.

[POS Industries]

Well, the theater here only has two screen, an antique sound system, terribly unforgiving (though roomy) seating, and may be older than your parents.

[Elminster_Amaur]

Oh, that sucks. We have a Rave Motion Pictures, which is probably why it costs so damn much. I mean, it's all stadium seating and almost brand-new everything.

If it was worth it to watch on a crappy theater at $6, then I must assume that it'll be worth it to get up early enough to catch a matinee. XD

[Masked Jedi]

So personally, I was unimpressed. It didn't feel true to the original. My least favorite easily.

[Doppler12]

For those of you who have seen it what's the young guy like. I sense a horrid return of the ShortRound type character.

What the fuck is wrong with Shortround?

[Ryanderman]

What the fuck is wrong with Shortround?
I too wish to know!

Saw it tonight, loved it. Of course, I'm pretty easy to please. To me, it felt like an Indiana Jones movie. That's all you can really ask of it.

Liked Mutt too, and wished Marion had more to do. Glad she got to throw a couple punches though. At least I think she did. My memory in that regard is a little unlcear.

[Smarty McBarrelpants]

What the fuck is wrong with Shortround?

Because he was a ridiculous nonsense of a character whose only purpose was to provide inane comments and highlight in his character everything that was wrong with Temple of Doom as compared to the other two.
He was the Jar-Jar Binks of Indiana Jones in other words.

[Regulus Tera]

I just came back from watching it and I have to say it was not what people hyped it to be. Never mind the aliens, what about surviving a nuclear blast by hiding in a fridge? There's only so much suspension of disbelief one can take in a movie like this.

However, not being an Indy fan, I enjoyed it. It was mindless fun, more especifically, the kind of fun one gets from watching a The Mummy movie. It was not badarse (or even sensical), but the action scenes made me laugh and I thought it was okay. Worth the trip to the theater.

[Toast]

yeah, there were definitely several parts that were completely over the top. The dialogue was pretty hilarious, though. I tend to agree, it seemed to not fit in with the other movies as well as it could have.

[I_Like_Swordchucks]

To echo everybody else, better than Temple but not as good as Raiders or Crusade.

However, better than Temple is enough for me to recommend this movie. Not being the worst in an amazing series puts it at least as a really good movie. In fact, if you don't go in there unintentionally comparing it to Raiders and Crusade (which were both basically flawless), its quite an amazing little flick.

[Solid Snake]

In a sense, I feel guilty having watched Iron Man because everything else I watch for the rest of this summer is going to inevitably be compared to Iron Man and many otherwise decent movies are going to subsequently, in my eyes, totally fail.

In other words, my summary is something like this: Indy 4 was not a bad movie, but as I was watching it felt like a bad movie on some subjective level, as comparisons to Iron Man (and also, as previously noted, to previous Indy installments like Raiders and Crusade) rang solidly in my mind.

It's intriguing to me because despite being two completely different movies at first glance, Iron Man and Indy are so similar in some respects as to what they're trying to accomplish: Downey's interpretation of Stark and the entire flow of that movie screamed feel-good escapism (compared to, say, the serious soap-opera pathos of a Spider-Man flick or the darker edge with Batman.) Yes, Iron Man had real-world interpretations of terrorism and modern-day Afghanistan but essentially it boiled down to an awesome-looking hero with an attitude kicking immense amounts of ass in an awesome suit, with lots of feel-good, laugh-out-loud moments and a few critical "suspend your disbelief" moments, too.

Indiana Jones tries the same approach -- and really, Indy's done it far longer, since the '80s. This one just failed where Iron Man succeeded. I didn't laugh nearly as hard, I wasn't nearly as excited with the action sequences as I wanted to be, and the supporting characters didn't engage me nearly as much as Gweneth Paltrow or the hot reporter chick or even Stark's stereotypical black best friend. I wanted to like Mutt, but didn't. I did like Marion, but didn't see enough of her doing much to make a difference. And maybe I just love John Rhys-Davies too much for my own good, but I really missed Sallah...even more than I missed Connery, really.

I didn't mind the plot twists, and I felt they all fit somehow into the warped dynamics of the Indy universe. And really, it was nice to see Harrison Ford being Indiana Jones again. But honestly, I don't feel as if this installment really did enough to justify ruining the near-perfect ending that Crusade provided for the series. It was a decent movie that I appreciated more for sentimental value in retrospect than when I actually watched it, but Iron Man is still the summer blockbuster to beat (even IF Indy 4 sells more tickets and makes more profits.)

[Azisien]

Saw it 30 minutes ago. It was good. I don't exactly know which Indy movies I've seen, besides Raiders, but suffice to say I'm not a follower of the series.

Either way, it was good. It had it's high points. Some of the action was great, Shia's character was a great addition to the cast. Aliens are kinda cool. It had it's low points. While the flirty thing was cool, the romance was completely tacked on. Kate Blanchett's character was, generally, rather irritating.

I like ants.

[Justice Team]

The only thing missing from this movie is Chuck norris and Mr. T.
But if either of them were in it, it would explode from sheer awesome!
A MUST SEE!!

[POS Industries]

The only thing missing from this movie is Chuck norris
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o159/posindustries/facepalm3.gif

[Mike McC]

Aside from having to stretch my disbelief further on this outing (Atomic Fridge Ride!), and some predictable occurances (Of course Mac was gonna die in the end, he betrayed Indy!), I will have to mirror the others and say that this sits firmly within the bounds of the established Indy movie quality scale.

[Kerensky287]

Excellent movie. First Indy one I've seen all of. I now plan to watch the rest.

Though I did think that the plot seemed a little... pointless. Nothing was accomplished, other than "Surprise! Mutt is your son." And the way the bad guy died didn't make much sense to me.

Still outstanding though. It's right up there with Iron Man for me.

[Regulus Tera]

And the way the bad guy died didn't make much sense to me.

The villain gained the knowledge the alien promised, but the villain's puny little human brain couldn't stand it.

About the most sense the whole movie makes.

[Mike McC]

I can understand why they went with the (alien) angle, because it reflects the kind of pulp stories you'd see around in the 50's. And really, what is Indiana Jones, but a fun pulp matinee romp? If you go in looking for more than that, then you're completely missing the point.

[I_Like_Swordchucks]

I can understand why they went with the (alien) angle, because it reflects the kind of pulp stories you'd see around in the 50's. And really, what is Indiana Jones, but a fun pulp matinee romp? If you go in looking for more than that, then you're completely missing the point.

Someone should mention that to the Russian Communist party, as they seemed to have missed that memo. Apparently they're trying to get the movie banned in Russia due to historical inaccuracy, distortion of the nature of the Cold War, and capitalist propaganda of the evils of communism.

Hehehe. Indiana Jones and historical inaccuracy... *snicker* I wonder did they just realize that now?

[POS Industries]

You..... you mean the Nazis weren't trying to use the Ark of the Covenant to win WW2?!

[Smarty McBarrelpants]

Hey, in the 1970s there was a well regarded theory about the Nazis and how they searched for artefacts like the Grail. Not such a popular theory now, but it's still around and clearly influenced the films.

[Mike McC]

Hey, in the 1970s there was a well regarded theory about the Nazis and how they searched for artefacts like the Grail. Not such a popular theory now, but it's still around and clearly influenced the films.It also influenced the sequel to Wolfenstein 3D, Spear of Destiny. But really, it's fun to imagine Hitler as a crazy power-hungry ancient relic hunting madman. Just like it's fun to imagine any country developing (a psychic warfare research department).

[Mauve Mage]

Someone should mention that to the Russian Communist party, as they seemed to have missed that memo. Apparently they're trying to get the movie banned in Russia due to historical inaccuracy, distortion of the nature of the Cold War, and capitalist propaganda of the evils of communism. Oh yes. Because I'm absolutely certain there were never any films made in Russia that put Americans in a bad light. Nope. None. ESPECIALLY not any films set during the Cold War. Noooooooo. Because no one would ever do that, and this is totally the first time America's ever made another country be the villain in an action film. Certainly the first time we've ever targeted Russians.

[Odjn]

Oh yes. Because I'm absolutely certain there were never any films made in Russia that put Americans in a bad light. Nope. None. ESPECIALLY not any films set during the Cold War. Noooooooo. Because no one would ever do that, and this is totally the first time America's ever made another country be the villain in an action film. Certainly the first time we've ever targeted Russians.

There's a difference between doing that when we're basically one inch away from blowing each other to fine atomic bits and doing it when we're trying to be friendly with the power hungry rising nation creeping closer to facism with every step.

[Smarty McBarrelpants]

But that's irrelevant. Case in point: The rest of the Indy movies which distort the Nazis even though you were being friendly with the Germans (well West Germany anyway). Or Temple of Doom which shits over Hindu religion when we all loved India.
Or all the World War 2 movies which are mean to both the Germs and the British.
And other countries do the same thing.
You can make a claim if it's a real serious, meant to be accurate movie but it's Indiana Jones for cripes sake. If we're going down this route everybody in the world who disputes the Ark of the Covenant being a super powerful artefact or those crazy Indian stones from the second movie that did something I don't remember can start taking action too.

[Regulus Tera]

Oh yes. Because I'm absolutely certain there were never any films made in Russia that put Americans in a bad light. Nope. None. ESPECIALLY not any films set during the Cold War. Noooooooo. Because no one would ever do that, and this is totally the first time America's ever made another country be the villain in an action film. Certainly the first time we've ever targeted Russians.

To be fair, I doubt any of those films were ever shown in your country. If Empire Capitalism the West can ban Communist Propaganda Soviet films that put down the United States then I don't see any reason why the situation couldn't be reversed.

[Mauve Mage]

To be fair, I doubt any of those films were ever shown in your country. If Empire Capitalism the West can ban Communist Propaganda Soviet films that put down the United States then I don't see any reason why the situation couldn't be reversed. Okay okay, point taken.

[POS Industries]

To be fair, I doubt any of those films were ever shown in your country. If Empire Capitalism the West can ban Communist Propaganda Soviet films that put down the United States then I don't see any reason why the situation couldn't be reversed.
Well, currently it couldn't because the Russian Communist Party is laughably out of power.

[Smarty McBarrelpants]

To be fair, I doubt any of those films were ever shown in your country. If Empire Capitalism the West can ban Communist Propaganda Soviet films that put down the United States then I don't see any reason why the situation couldn't be reversed.

Disregarding all else these films aren't about propaganda. They need ridiculous over the top villains. That does tie into the comment I made before this movie came out that Nazi's are better film villains cause you can make them ridiculously over the top and no one cares but still, I doubt anyone would take this films depiction of the USSR as accurate.

[Regulus Tera]

Clearly Indiana Jones V will feature gray Martians as the villains as Indy tries to overcome their plan for the rapid heat of planet Earth to create an environment suitable for their cloning processes. Not only is that over the top, but it is also politically correct!

Except for the Martians, but fuck the Martians.

[Osterbaum]

Steven Spielberg and George Lucas: Why do you hate your own creations so much? Is it so you could hate them with us? 'Cause that just won't work.

The movie sucked. And it sucked bad. One of the major movie dissapointments I have ever had.

Let's burry it and never speak of it again. Atleast we still have the first three films.

Fucking sidekick monkeys and aliens. Fuckin hell.

[I_Like_Swordchucks]

Steven Spielberg and George Lucas: Why do you hate your own creations so much? Is it so you could hate them with us? 'Cause that just won't work.

The movie sucked. And it sucked bad. One of the major movie dissapointments I have ever had.

Let's burry it and never speak of it again. Atleast we still have the first three films.

Fucking sidekick monkeys and aliens. Fuckin hell.

I hate to disappoint you, but the general consensus is that its actually better than Temple of Doom, putting it in league with the first three films even if it wasn't as good as Raiders or Crusade.

So its not going to be buried, and will be spoke of many times. Neener.

[Azisien]

On the bright side if that's one of his biggest disappointments EVER at least he's had a pretty great life up until now.

[Osterbaum]

I hate to disappoint you, but the general consensus is that its actually better than Temple of Doom, putting it in league with the first three films even if it wasn't as good as Raiders or Crusade.

So its not going to be buried, and will be spoke of many times. Neener.
Don't worry. After seeing the movie this is hardly a dissapointment anymore.

On the bright side if that's one of his biggest disappointments EVER at least he's had a pretty great life up until now.
Correction! One of my major MOVIE disappointments ever.

My life is agony day after day. Like living in a pit of lava that doesn't kill you, it just burns you and slowly drowns you.

But occasionally I go see a good movie and feel a bit better. Which this time did not happen.

[Mike McC]

It's actually rated slightly higher than "Last Crusade" on Metacritic. By, like, 2 points.

So, yeah, the consensus is that it's on par with the previous films.

It ain't our fault you hate monkeys, you irrational person you.

[Smarty McBarrelpants]

I hate to disappoint you, but the general consensus is that its actually better than Temple of Doom, putting it in league with the first three films even if it wasn't as good as Raiders or Crusade.

So its not going to be buried, and will be spoke of many times. Neener.

Didn't we bury Temple of Doom ages ago though? It kind of happened but no one really likes to think about it.

[Preturbed]

It's actually rated slightly higher than "Last Crusade" on Metacritic. By, like, 2 points.

So, yeah, the consensus is that it's on par with the previous films.

New stuff always gets rated higher than old stuff, cause nobody weighs in on old stuff.

I juts saw Indy 4 and I gotta say, it was every bit as bad as I expected. Personally I'm ranking it lower than any of the previous three, if only because it means I have to put up with Shy LeDouche for 2 more Indy movies. But it's not only for that reason, it's just the best one. I can deal with the concept of aliens, but not with the actual depiction of said aliens beyond the skeleton thing. Also the flying saucer was over the top. Too much. Atomic Fridge ride, bad. Shy swinging tree to tree, worse..

[Mike McC]

New stuff always gets rated higher than old stuff, cause nobody weighs in on old stuff.Actually, it's usually the opposite, that the old stuff is rated higher 95% of the time.

[I_Like_Swordchucks]

New stuff always gets rated higher than old stuff, cause nobody weighs in on old stuff.

See ratings/reviews for Casablanca, Citizen Kane, Clockwork Orange, It's a Wonderful Life, the original Superman, Monty Python and the Holy Grail, Apocalypse Now, the original Halloween, Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back, the Godfather, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Die Hard, Princess Bride, and Who Framed Roger Rabbit and any number of other movies that are pre-1990 to see why what you just said is so blatantly wrong that its not even funny.

Most of the highest rated movies to ever come out are old. Very few new ones get the unanimous praise that the golden oldies did.

[Smarty McBarrelpants]

See ratings/reviews for Casablanca, Citizen Kane, Clockwork Orange, It's a Wonderful Life, the original Superman, Monty Python and the Holy Grail, Apocalypse Now, the original Halloween, Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back, the Godfather, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Die Hard, Princess Bride, and Who Framed Roger Rabbit and any number of other movies that are pre-1990 to see why what you just said is so blatantly wrong that its not even funny.

Most of the highest rated movies to ever come out are old. Very few new ones get the unanimous praise that the golden oldies did.

But this is just selecting some of the more famous movies of the past. Showing that they have high scores does nothing to address whether old movies or new movies get higher ratings as there are more old movies than new ones so they will have the highest scores as well as the lowest scores.

I mean everyone of the movies I own was pre 1990 and I just checked and only half of them are even in metacritic. And I have objectively good taste!

[Regulus Tera]

It's actually rated slightly higher than "Last Crusade" on Metacritic. By, like, 2 points.

So, yeah, the consensus is that it's on par with the previous films.

Considering Indiana Jones is a beloved franchise where Spielberg could have had a camera panning around a pile of shit with the Indiana Jones music on infinite loop and it would have reviewed well, I don't trust film critics that much.

It was better than Temple of Doom (the only Indy movie I saw before this one), but not by much, really.

[Mike McC]

The scores on Metacritic were actually 65 and 67, far from steller. More average.

[Mauve Mage]

(the only Indy movie I saw before this one) You sir, have failed. FAILED.

YOU FAIL.


Oh man, I feel for you... Temple of Doom is only a good intro to the Indiana Jones series if you're a young kid who thinks seeing fellow young kids tailing the hero in action films is cool. It's a decent enough movie, but it's really the worst of the four Indiana Jones movies.



Anyway, back on topic, I enjoyed Crystal Skull for the most part. There were a few things that messed with my willing suspension of disbelief (if the crate was magnetic, why didn't it affect the soldier's guns until that one distinct moment when they decided that EVERYTHING should suddenly be attracted to it? How could Jones survive a nuclear blast, standing about a mile and a half away from a freaking mushroom cloud, only to be absolutely okay after a good washing?) but I thought it was a fun film that handled the whole Mutt is Indy's Kid thing better than expected. I fully expected Shiah's character to be annoying beyond all belief.... and was pleasantly surprised to find that I could actually stand him. So while it wasn't the best Indy movie, I'd still recommend it.

[Magus]

I absolutely loved about 95% of it, Ford seemed off for the first two or three minutes and a few other times throughout the film, one or two of the things were just too silly, I rolled my eyes (NOT the nuclear fridge. That was AWESOME. Unrealistic, yes, but the hilarity of Indy realizing he's on a nuclear test range, yelling at the Russians for leaving him behind, even after he was the one who escaped from them, and then hurriedly jumping into a fridge and slamming the door was more than enough to save it) such as CUTE MONKEYS and CUTE PRAIRIE DOGS, etc., which were probably the brain child of George Lucas, I have no doubt, and, of course, Mutt's Tarzan antics (his fencing duel was actually pretty damn good, even if the filmmakers left Indy off-screen for five minutes to accomplish it, which is something you shouldn't ever do. At least intersperse random scenes of Indy smacking people every thirty seconds of the duel, Spielberg), the catapulting tree scene, and some other elements.

Anyway, I wasn't disappointed with the movie, I ended up loving it after the first few minutes, after the first couple of minutes it really seemed to catch its stride (even if the first twenty minutes or so in the Nevada desert are the best part of the film, the rest of it was certainly above my expectations), and held me until the end. Just as good as the other films, for better or for worse, and I certainly enjoyed myself immensely. I look forward to watching it again and again as I have been with the original trilogy for many years now, so I'm probably not the most objective critic, however.

[Regulus Tera]

You sir, have failed. FAILED.

YOU FAIL.


Oh man, I feel for you... Temple of Doom is only a good intro to the Indiana Jones series if you're a young kid who thinks seeing fellow young kids tailing the hero in action films is cool. It's a decent enough movie, but it's really the worst of the four Indiana Jones movies.

I'm sorry?! I cannot hear you over all this SPEED RACER!!!

[Azisien]

How could Jones survive a nuclear blast, standing about a mile and a half away from a freaking mushroom cloud, only to be absolutely okay after a good washing?)

Uh, he's Indiana Jones. He could have ate the bomb and it would have only given him indigestion.

But to expand on your point, he's not okay at all. He avoided the short term effects of the blast, but you didn't see long after the credits when he dies a long, painful death to lung, brain, and prostate cancer.

[Preturbed]

Metacritic rates it lower than Sex and the City - The Movie.

I'm pretty sure even Temple of Doom beats that.

[I_Like_Swordchucks]

Metacritic rates it lower than Sex and the City - The Movie.

I'm pretty sure even Temple of Doom beats that.

Based on four reviews.

Rotten Tomatoes has 10 reviews submitted, and both the fresh and average score are well below Indy 4, so I'm quite sure the Metacritic score will decline once the more serious reviewers get their comments in.

Besides, thats comparing apples to oranges. Sex and the City has an appeal to a completely different audience, and simply having a better score does not mean the 20 year old nerdy male would enjoy it even remotely to the same degree as ANY Indiana Jones movie. As of yet, it also has a better score than Last Crusade on Metacritic, and I'm quite sure that I would rather watch Last Crusade ten times straight than Sex and the City even once.

But this is just selecting some of the more famous movies of the past. Showing that they have high scores does nothing to address whether old movies or new movies get higher ratings as there are more old movies than new ones so they will have the highest scores as well as the lowest scores.

Yes, thats fine, except:

New stuff always gets rated higher than old stuff, cause nobody weighs in on old stuff.

Clearly its a blatant untruth. My list of movies, selective they may be, completely destroys Preturbed's claim. The total number of movies that garnered universal praise since 1990 is less than the total number of movies that garnered universal praise in either the 80s, 70s, or 60s in spite of a WHOLE lot more movies actually coming out. I would tend to think new stuff is criticized a lot more, because the art of storytelling has been ravaged by CGI, gimmicks, and a lack of new ideas.

[Osterbaum]

Since when did critics get to decide which movies are good and which are bad?

[Preturbed]

Yes, thats fine, except:
Are you trying to destroy my claim based on the word always? 'Cause, you know, always is ALWAYS used literally.

What I'm trying to get across is that a lot more people are going to rush home to rate IJ4 than have rated any of the previous ones.

22 People (and by people I'm excluding you, Ebert and Roeper) have rated Last Crusade.
28 have rated Raiders
423 have rated Crystal Skull

I have no idea why Temple of Doom isn't on there, I wanna know what the people say.

So I was wrong that new movies get rated higher. I was right that more people rate them. Meh.

Since when did critics get to decide which movies are good and which are bad?
I dont know, but Speed Racer is my final proof.

[Smarty McBarrelpants]

Since when did critics get to decide which movies are good and which are bad?

Because our opinion aren't valid unless authorised by our intellectual betters. Freedom of opinion is sooo 1700s.

[RickZarber]

Well, I've held off on saying anything, but as this thread is winding down anyways I might as well get it off my chest.

I think Last Crusade is better (or at least more enjoyable) than Raiders of the Lost Ark. And I like Temple of Doom; it's my least favorite of the four, but I'll never get the hate people have for it. The only thing I'll agree with is that Willie is kind of annoying. I think the main difference (besides the setting and the mythology involved) is that Temple of Doom has a different sense of humor than the other two. It goes for over the top comedy rather than the sort of situational humor Raiders and Crusade use. Kingdom of the Crystal Skull uses the over-the-top stuff as well, so I dunno... it's all Indiana Jones to me.

Also, was I the only one who got a kick out of Indy relating his ride with Pancho Villa (actually shown in the Mexico 1916 episode of Young Indiana Jones)?

[Mike McC]

I don't think most people hate Temple of Doom, it's just most agree it's the weakest of the series. I still really liked it, and others in here said they liked it too. I've come across people who say Temple of Doom is thier favorite. It's all up to personal taste, and nearly everyone agrees that the series all together is a great one.

[Regulus Tera]

Also, was I the only one who got a kick out of Indy relating his ride with Pancho Villa (actually shown in the Mexico 1916 episode of Young Indiana Jones)?

I did catch the reference, but instead of getting a kick out of remembering something from a random scene of a random episode of a random series I saw some late afternoon during my childhood it reminded me of the historical inaccuracy the producers used between the Villistas and Carrancistas' methods for moving the masses.

Huh. That's really weird. Also, the accents of the villagers. Totally not lower-class Mexicans.

[Mike McC]

Does anyone know if the twelve Indiana Jones novels (set between his college days and his Temple of Doom days) are good? I've been wanting to check them out.

[RickZarber]

(I)t reminded me of the historical inaccuracy the producers used between the Villistas and Carrancistas' methods for moving the masses.

Huh. That's really weird. Also, the accents of the villagers. Totally not lower-class Mexicans.:brow:

You remembered all that from a random scene of a random episode of a random series you saw some late afternoon from your childhood?

[Regulus Tera]

Like I said, really weird. I always was a very special boy. But hey, at least remembering that was more gratifying than watching Shia LeBoeuf go Tarzan on the jungle.

[Magus]

I actually read the comic-book version of that story where Indy fights with Pancho Villa, wherein Indy also fights a guy with a hook for a hand over a Cursed Jackal or some such thing. Young Indiana Jones Adventures was something, man.

I've only read one of those novels set before the movies, Curse of the Ruby Cross, I think? (Apparently lots of stuff is cursed) It was okay for a young adult but it's not really hard to read, or very long, or whatever. The plot was pretty paper-thin, as well.

Temple of Doom is not that bad a movie, it has the bridge scene, after all, and the opening bit in the nightclub was top of the line, in my opinion.

[Mike McC]

I've only read one of those novels set before the movies, Curse of the Ruby Cross, I think? (Apparently lots of stuff is cursed) It was okay for a young adult but it's not really hard to read, or very long, or whatever. The plot was pretty paper-thin, as well.That's actually not in the series of novels I was referring to. That was in the youth series. I apologize, I forgot that there were other series put out. I really should have been more specific. I was refering to the adult series, and they are:

by Rob MacGregor
Indiana Jones and the Peril at Delphi
Indiana Jones and the Dance of the Giants
Indiana Jones and the Seven Veils
Indiana Jones and the Genesis Deluge
Indiana Jones and the Unicorn's Legacy
Indiana Jones and the Interior World

by Martin Caidin
Indiana Jones and the Sky Pirates
Indiana Jones and the White Witch

by Max McCoy
Indiana Jones and the Philosopher's Stone
Indiana Jones and the Dinosaur Eggs
Indiana Jones and the Hollow Earth
Indiana Jones and the Secret of the Sphinx

And it's an official series of novels, too.

[POS Industries]

Indiana Jones and the Philosopher's Stone
Wait, what?

[Smarty McBarrelpants]

It's a reasonable artefact to send someone like Indy after.
Until Harry Potter came along and did whatever he does. Wave his wand I guess.

[POS Industries]

Well yes, it is a reasonable artifact, but now it suddenly occurs to me how much better the series would be if Indy was the protagonist instead.

[Smarty McBarrelpants]

Actually that would be completely awesome. I wonder if anyone ever tried just shooting Voldemort. With a gun.

[Mike McC]

They have (http://www.potterpuppetpals.com/newppp/channels/Trouble%20at%20Hogwarts.htm).