Battlestar Galactica Season 4 (SPOILERS)

[Eltargrim]

Holy frak.

Hooooooly frak.

8 minutes of awesome so far. Their CGI budget is going to be shot from here on in, but HOOOOOOLY frak.

[Fifthfiend]

I will so fucking permaban unspoilertagged spoilers you won't even believe it.

[Eltargrim]

Ok, I don't know how spoiler tags work, but I'm trying my best. And, oh yeah, spoilers.
Anders tries try make a nice and accepting statement to possibly-Cylon Kara, and she says that she'd put a bullet in his brains if she found out that he was a Cylon. And now she goes on a rampage trying to find the president. I don't know what kind of mindfuck mojo she's had worked on her, but it's working. Moreso than the Cylon programming of the Four.

Oh son of a BITCH. What a time to cut out.

[Michael Valentine]

Seriously.
By thirty minutes in, I just KNEW that was going to be the last scene. Only downside to this episode was lack of Basestar scenes, and the sick little boy story arc. I mean what the hell? Recovering from virus with no alternative reasoning, and a fangirl overpowering two grown men?
Still not sure what I think, overall, of the season finale, but nothing much disappointed me. Can't wait to see the next episode!

[Eltargrim]

Seriously.
By thirty minutes in, I just KNEW that was going to be the last scene. Only downside to this episode was lack of Basestar scenes, and the sick little boy story arc. I mean what the hell? Recovering from virus with no alternative reasoning, and a fangirl overpowering two grown men?

More spoilers!
The way I understand it, the cylon perspective of the Anders eye-wink thing will be happening next episode; it serves to prolong the mystery from the human perspective.

On the Baltar front, this signifies an increase in the supernatural front of BSG, which is something that I knew was inevitable, but I still dislike. I'm going under the assumption that it's running under Clarke's Third.

Some examples of supernatural events, off the top of my head:

Baltar's 6
6's Baltar
The Opera House with Roslin, 6, and Hera
Starbuck coming back (Assuming that she's not a cylon)

Oh, and finally: I wasn't surprised by the woman taking the guys, mainly because she started beating on them with a metal pipe. Tough guy or not, that hurts.

Still not sure what I think, overall, of the season finale, but nothing much disappointed me. Can't wait to see the next episode!

BSG space fighting = happy, happy Eltargrim. I can't wait until I make it back to my computer, so I can download it and watch it again :p

[Fifthfiend]

I like how 95% of Gaius' worshippers are chicks. Man, bitches love the Baltar.

Re:

the sick little boy story arc. I mean what the hell? Recovering from virus with no alternative reasoning, and a fangirl overpowering two grown men?

can't say about the fight with the girl but they actually said early on that it wasn't rock-solid fated that the boy was gonna die, just that there wasn't anything that could be done medicinally for a viral infection so it was a matter of whether his immune system was able to pull him through. It was a bad infection so recovery looked unlikely, but that he did recover doesn't particularly require additional explanation.

[Archbio]

My only real problem with the premiere:

It makes Starbuck being a Cylon just too plain obvious, so I have a hard time keeping to my prediction on that.

[Fifthfiend]

(Is anyone reading this who isn't following the show? Should I just go ahead and make this an open-spoilers thread?)

I never actually took Starbuck for a Cylon even from the last season's finale as that I thought it would be too obvious. I'm taking it as that they're hinting at some greater mystery beyond who is and isn't a Cylon.

I'm also really enjoying the revealed Cylons' moral dilemmas. The look on Anders face when Starbuck was like "if you were a Cylon I'd shoot you in the head" was priceless.

[Archbio]

At least the finale allowed for an alternate explanation to be brought in by Starbuck herself. What we have instead is a series of massive blanks that scream to be filled in with "Cylon-like ressurection across vast distances." It became a little more obvious than it was.

I suppose the mystery could be on Starbuck being a Cylon different from the four others, who are different than the 'originals.' On that subject, I'm still betting on the Final Five being from a far older generation of Cylons than the others, one from Earth.

[Demetrius]

Or that the 13th tribe was cylons to start with...

[Odjn]

I like how 95% of Gaius' worshippers are chicks. Man, bitches love the Baltar.

He is a very pretty man.

[Archbio]

Or that the 13th tribe was cylons to start with...

It certainly would explain why they had to get the hell out of dodge in the first place. We really don't know what kind of technology they would have had access to, that far back in time. Beside space travel, of course. Maybe they cylonized on the way, especially if FTL is a more recent advance. I hope we get more detail on the tribes' ancient history.

He is a very pretty man.

So say we all.

[Osterbaum]

I don't think it's all that clear who is the fifth Cylon. Or maybe I'm just hoping?

Hey, which week day will the show air in the US? If you wouldn't mind telling me.

[Fifthfiend]

We get it here on Fridays.

[G.I.R.]

I really don't think she's a Cylon. It would be WAY too obvious for her to be the 1st of the 5. if anything, she was lead by The Gods and they were the ones who delivered here there and back. Her Raptor was brand new, never had a scratch on it. She's been drawing the Eye of Jupiter since she was a kid(which was in their holy book).

And then we have Baltar who the people now see as a savior and healer. The Voice of the One God of the Cylons.

This whole thing is like a holy war between the gods. The final season will be interesting, without a doubt.

And yes, the look on Anders' face was priceless. I loved it. And ^_^ for space battles!

[Fifthfiend]

By the power vested in me by Brian Clevinger and John Murray I declare this thread to be open-spoilers.

Ironically I am following this up with the totally non-spoilery comment that (and I am entirely certain that I am not the first person ever to make this observation) but seriously if these are the final survivors of a group of worlds that were annihilated four years ago now, where does Lee Adama keep getting the frakking hairgel?

I mean come on!

http://www.gateworld.net/galactica/miniseries/graphics/080.jpg

How in the hell is he still doing that goddamn flippy head-spike shit, four years out of the gate? This Goddamn show, I swear.

Also: the final cylon is President Rosalyn. So I predict!

[Mannix]

where does Lee Adama keep getting the frakking hairgel?
Like Fry in Futurama, he makes his own.

This is the last season of BSG, and is anybody else worried after that last episode that they're just going to have too many sub plots and it's going to be too busy?

[Archbio]

I predict Zarek as the ultimate cylon.

Zarek has everything that Roslin has going for her as a cylon suspect, except for the shared dreams*. He also has the benefit of not being terminally sick, and of not being a main (read: too obvious) character. Gravitating to key positions in what's left of humanity seems to be the common point of the first Final Four. Anders not only survived on post-genocide Caprica but became leader of the resistance. Tyrol is The Chief as well as union leader. Tory and Foster are both seconds in command in the fleet.

The ultimate cylon being one of the two heads of the fleet would make sense in that optic. I'm sure it's not Adama. They've played that angle already, if I remember correctly. That doesn't really rule him out, but it does lessen the interest if he is. The biggest indication that he's not quite a normal human (to me at least), his Cylon-like 'projection' ability, he shares with Baltar and Starbuck. They can't all be the final cylon, so my guess would be that they have something else in common. Maybe they're three emissaries of the (artificial) gods.

So it could be Roslin. Or it could be Zarek, by the same reasoning. Roslin dies, and she's looking grim indeed, he's President. He becomes a very dramatic cylon suspect just in time for the big reveal. Also, Lee Adama just went to work for him, so that's made meaningful as well.

So since it seems to be shaping up to be between Zarek, Roslin (the image of dying, old human power) and a bunch of dead minor characters then I pick Zarek.

Edit:

where does Lee Adama keep getting the frakking hairgel?

There's a ship called the Dapper Dan in the fleet. Hairgel cargo.

*I remember that Baltar was in the dreams, but I don't remember if he was shown sharing them.

[Fifthfiend]

See I can sort-of see Zarek except honestly how much of anything has he ever really affected in terms of what happens to the fleet and the crew? Sure he's sought power but he's generally just kind of failed to achieve it. Whereas Rosalyn has been the driving force of basically everything since the beginning. Like she's so central and such a driving force that I had never even considered that she could be a cylon, and then she (I am about to say a spoiler!) took that shot at Starbuck something clicked and I was like holy shit she could actually be a Cylon! And as soon as that occured to me I was like oh my God she has to be. I mean especially if you look at someone like Tigh where he's the guy who lost an eye and had to shoot his wife and shit on account of the Cylons and it turns out he is one but I mean President Rosalyn has been the woman who will throw you out a Goddamn airlock just for standing in the general vicinity of one of them. I mean hell you've got the four of the final five we know about and they're huddled up together being like so seriously if anyone ever even suspects anything about this President Laura Rosalyn will motherfrakking murder every single last one of us! The Starbuck thing is just the clincher cause honestly at the point where you are willing to put a bullet in the head of someone who has risked her friendships and reputation along with her life on nothing more than belief in your leadership because you suspect that a chance that she might be something then the laws of drama practically demand that you yourself turn out to be whatever it was you were willing to kill over.

[Archbio]

Yes, but... cancer!

The appeal of Zarek as a cylon is that it allows the reveal to have a big impact on the storyline without using a character that's major before the reveal. Basically I'm expecting the writers to avoid using the core characters for this now that they've basically used a handful of their support characters for the last reveal. A form of misdirection, really. I can see how Zarek's bit player status would make the reveal less dramatically meaningful, but it doesn't make it any less plausible. I don't know which one you meant. I'm assuming the ultimate cylon is like the others in that they were unconsciously positionning themselves before the 'awakening.'

Add to that Roslin's own dialogue about the timing of her imminent death and about destiny...

But Roslin herself being the cylon would make a lot of sense*. As a secondary prediction, I'll say that even if Zarek isn't a cylon he's going to play a bigger part in the rest of the season. Assuming Roslin's a cylon: she loses the cancer (maybe by miraculous intervention), then starts flipping out. Zarek could be opposing her at that point. Lets not forget Lee Adama's now with him, so he's bound to get focused on in some capacity or other. Even if he just dies, it would still count.

Horrifying thought: what if Lee Adama working with/under Zarek puts him somewhere in line for the presidency? Wouldn't he be only a few deaths (some easily explainable) away from being Roslin'd into power? It would really fit in the show's habit of shuffling him through various positions. I don't even want to think about the possibility of this whole career change thing being cylon-induced.

*If we forget about the cancer. Unless her reaction to the hybrid blood, or even the cancer itself, is a function of her being a cylon. I'm not sure we've been given reason to believe that might be the case, though. I don't recall how mysterious the explanation for the cure was.

[Michael Valentine]

Just to butt in here, it hasn't quite been four years. It was about six months before New Caprica, a year before the cylons came, another...four months I think, then an unknown period of time before Starbuck died. It's been two months since then, and thus we are in the present. I have been wondering about Roslin for a bit, myself, mostly because I'd be really disappointed if the most likely candidates (Gaeta and Dee) were the last one. After Friday though, I don't think Roslin is a cylon.

[Osterbaum]

What about Baltar?

[Fifthfiend]

Yes, but... cancer!

My view on the cancer is at this point we don't know enough about the final Cylons ato draw any conclusions about how they function or how that functioning differs from the other seven Cylon models. Hell we don't even necessarily know whether the seven standard Cylon models would be susceptible to cancer; it just wouldn't be a problem from their perspective as they would just terminate their current body and transfer consciousness to a new one. Hell cancerous growths could even be preprogrammed into a Cylon's physiology, which would explain Roslin's cancer turning up right at the time of the Colonial holocaust and being so conveniently in line with the prophecy of the dying leader and her having visions and all that sort of thing.

[Archbio]

Lets not forget the new, convenient miraculous healer.

So yes, the cancer could be equally be a part or a kink in a cylon plan. I'm not inclined to think it's coincidental myself, but if it's not it could be planned (and significant) without Roslin being a cylon.

There's just too many pawns of destiny (robotic divine manipulation) for the number of hidden cylons left.

[Eltargrim]

What.

What what what what what.

What.

[Ryanderman]

To quote Darth Vader, "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!"

I'm in shock. And angry. I'm completely pissed off by this.

But I have to admit, it's some good television.

[Mannix]

The Chief's son was conspicuously absent in that last scene, to my eye. Did whats-her-name abscond with him?

[Archbio]

The Chief's son was conspicuously absent in that last scene, to my eye. Did whats-her-name abscond with him?

I don't see what she'd gain by it. He's not going anywhere now. Unless she became aware of more than new feelings/general evilness.

The Bad: Starbuck makes a comment about how alien her body feels. A new body for a new Viper? Dammit, stop teasing me! She could have been ressurected without being a cylon? Right?

The Good: Don't forget the magic word.

[Fifthfiend]

If they were gonna give her a new body they could have at least got rid of the stupid tattoo.

I like how Tory is kind of getting to be the one who's like "Okay fuck it, so I'll be a Cylon."

[Archbio]

I like how Tory is kind of getting to be the one who's like "Okay fuck it, so I'll be a Cylon."

Someone has to do it. Picking up the evil slack.

It must be a welcome change from being kind of a non-character, anyway!

[Mannix]

I like how Tory is kind of getting to be the one who's like "Okay fuck it, so I'll be a Cylon."
That's why I think she snatched the kid - she was aware of what they did with Helo and Athena's kid to keep it from potential cylons, she might have just figured she'd take it and figure out what to do later.

[Fifthfiend]

It must be a welcome change from being kind of a non-character, anyway!

God I miss Billy. :(

[Archbio]

God I miss Billy.

Don't worry, there's probably a Ressurection Ship full of Billies around somewhere, waiting for the anticlimax. :D

[Fifthfiend]

It's just not the same.

I mean how great would it be if you had Billy in there right now being a Cylon instead of Lameface McNocharacter? Totally great, that's how great it would be.

[Kroze Gamegod]

How dumb of a question can Kroze think up after bitch in front of him steals his original question at the BSG NYC Comic Con panel? (http://www.hulu.com/watch/17774/sci-fi-wire-battlestar-galactica-at-ny-comic-con)

Answer: Pretty fraking dumb and generic...

@ 39:50 in video

[Osterbaum]

Zach is the fifth.

(I haven't seen the newest episode yet! Ohnoes!)

[Archbio]

I just realized Baltar keeps getting neck wounds. How odd.

[Fifthfiend]

1. I am gonna put it out there, so far this season has been equal parts suck and lame. It's got that second-season-of-Heroes feeling to it where nothing seems nearly as interesting or compelling as anything that happened previously. Baltar's weird-assed sex cult is just I don't know, ugh, and that's the most interesting thing going on in the show right now. I think they went wrong the moment they decided to change the pre-episode series review. I mean hey remember when the Cylons had a plan? A big mysterious plan that was scary and evil and you didn't know what it was? And now instead we've got some third-rate mystery that gets less interesting with each episode and

2. Callie dying was honestly just kind of lame and lazy and means I have to watch more of the four Secret Cylons flailing around not knowing what in the hell they're doing and getting more moody and boring and lame instead of anyone actually having to seriously confront that these people they've known for years upon years are actually Cylons (and relatively blameless ones at that!).

3. The whole Ellen-as-Six thing creeps me the fuck out. Every time they throw that at me it's like Holy shit where did that come from! I don't know what that's about but there it is.

4. The whole Six/Tigh makeouts thing, just...seriously what in the fuck is there to say to that?

[Osterbaum]

I must say that watching the latest episode I did get this feeling of "Was the show like this during the previous seasons?".

So yeah. Hopefully things are going to start happening soon.

Also, to add one more point; Why the hell did Lee have to become a friggin' politician? I mean, it's got some potential in it, but for now it's just been boring.

[Ryanderman]

When Cally died, I thought it had the potential to start something that could get really good. I hated them killing her off, but thought it was a good move to make. But after this last episode killed any momentum built by it, I'm starting to agree with Fifth.

Though, the Cylon civil war could be good if we'd get more war and less Boomer making out with Cavil.

[Fifthfiend]

Boomer making out with Cavil.

Oh Christ that was the other one.

Seriously Battlestar, WTF?

[Archbio]

And now instead we've got some third-rate mystery that gets less interesting with each episode[...]

That's an almost generous way to put it. I mean, the actual Final Five mystery is still whole and still going (what they are), but the mystery of their identity kind of climaxed in the finale. Now, I don't feel any tension building on the specific identity of the last one in the episodes themselves. I think that the between-seasons hype is really working at cross-purpose with how the show itself seems to be working that particular mystery. It's not a whodunit.

Baltar's cult I count as something that contributes in making The Plan seem suddenly so very much more mundane. From a story in which gods (supernatural or not) are involved behind the scenes to sectarian violence. It's a drop.

I still have hope for the civil war angle.

[Fifthfiend]

Baltar's cult I count as something that contributes in making The Plan seem suddenly so very much more mundane.

Yeah that's another thing. I mean the one God's plan is... convert a bunch of people to worshipping him? Wow One-God that's real creative God-thinking there no God ever tried that one before.

Weirdly I could actually totally see Baltar as a sort of charismatic and driven but ultimately and even despite himself self-serving religous cult preaching leader type figure it's just that the way they're actually doing it just kind of completely sucks.

Generally everything they've ever done featuring anybody taking the side of the Cylons has been kind of stupid but this somehow seems inordinately stupid.

[Archbio]

Yeah that's another thing. I mean the one God's plan is... convert a bunch of people to worshipping him? Wow One-God that's real creative God-thinking there no God ever tried that one before.

And really, what about the timing of it? If that's the plan, why wasn't it done before? It's not like it's properly explained why there's more opportunity for religion building now that there was when Baltar basically enjoyed rockstar status and some credibility as something else than a mass murderer. Unless it's only being done as a part of a chain of events that would only bring about the right result in that period of time (with the awakening and Earth and such), but at face value it is just a stupid plan that makes the other parts of the (presumed) plan seem overly convulated and even more stupid in retrospect.

All in all I think that it rings badly because for me, the two levels (religion as a social construct and the supernatural) as they are treated just clash, and the more interesting of the two is being phased out and the other phased in.

[Fifthfiend]

Dear People Who Make Battlestar Galactica:

Please to make Starbuck cool and tough again and not just depressing whackjob crazy-go-nuts.

Thanking you muchly,

Me

[Archbio]

So.

They took the two subplots I liked, tied them together (seemingly to devote less running time to the combined plotlines) and threw Chief Obnoxious Character himself, Leoben, into the mix?

Fantastic.

[Fifthfiend]

I should totally rename this thread "Fifth and ArchBio Mourn Battlestar's Former Awesomeness".

Dunno where Asizen's been but we could totally get him in on it, too.

I wouldn't mind the plotmerge so much if they would just let Starbuck be awesome at it like she used to be instead of just acting generically crazy and, frankly, sad. I mean like, even if she's completely right about Earth, still just kind of sad. I just keep watching this and thinking "Man, remember when this show started and Starbuck kicked ass and took names? Cause nowadays, not so much!"

I mean she always had that deep line of crazy running through her, but it used to be even when she was totally bug-frack insane it was like, asskicking name-taking insane, not this holed up in her cabin with her fingerpaints, distractedly muttering herself while her crew justifiably plots mutiny against her bullshit.

[Archbio]

If insanity is a spectrum, fingerpainting is very near the undramatic end of it.

Assuming there was some point to the Tigh/Six situation (besides more plot stalling dementia), it occured to me that one of the conversation might have been heavily hinting (in a double meaning) that the humans we see on the show might actually be closer to the cylons than to what we usually consider human. Leoben's 'we all are more than we seem' interpretation of religion kind of helped send me speculating that way.

Maybe what makes cylons cylons is their clonelike nature and their distinct immediate origin, the other attributes being shared. It'd explain Kara Thrace's month off, anyway.

[Ryanderman]

I'm finding the drama of the mutiny be severely lacking. What did Kara think her crew was going to do when she started collaborating with the Cylons? A besides that, I'm finding it hard to believe that Adama didn't give Helo contingency "you can lock her up when..." orders before they left. Adama let them go on the mission because he wants to believe she's right, not because he actually believes it. And he's smart enough to at least consider the possibility that something like this might happen. I'd think "She invites Leoben on board and decides to help the Cylons" would be at the top of the list of mutinable actions.


Tyrol's story is at least decent, as they slowly (so slowly) show his collapse. I just wish the show would get on with it already, and have something actually happen.

EDIT after the episode on May 9th: This at least was an entertaining episode. Maybe because it didn't involve Tyrol being angsty, Tory being evil, or Tigh getting his sadomasicism on with Caprica Six. The plot moved ahead a bit, and it was fun to watch as it happened. Hopefully this is a turn around?

[Mannix]

EDIT after the episode on May 9th: This at least was an entertaining episode. Maybe because it didn't involve Tyrol being angsty, Tory being evil, or Tigh getting his sadomasicism on with Caprica Six. The plot moved ahead a bit, and it was fun to watch as it happened. Hopefully this is a turn around?
I'm holding my breath less and less for a turn around at this point because after episode 10 they're going on another break and won't show the other half of the season until 2009. So by the time any of this gets interesting it'll be time for the break and we'll have forgotten everything when it picks back up again.

[Ryanderman]

I think that was a rumor that went around for a while, but it hasn't been confirmed that they're doing it. There'll likely be some break after episode 11, as that's the last one they were able to film before the strike. But I'm hoping they don't make the hiatus a year long.

[Fifthfiend]

EDIT after the episode on May 9th: This at least was an entertaining episode. Maybe because it didn't involve Tyrol being angsty, Tory being evil, or Tigh getting his sadomasicism on with Caprica Six. The plot moved ahead a bit, and it was fun to watch as it happened. Hopefully this is a turn around?

I could maybe be okay with it if they weren't continuing to push this "the Cylon God nuked us so let's all go worship him now" angle, or letting the Cylons get away with shit about "human justice" without having someone point out "hey fuckers, remember when you murdered 12 billion people? Frak you!"

That said the episode was decently action-ey. Also, Athena is now officially the greatest character ever, and Anders has managed to become the only Final Cylon that I actually sort of give a shit about.

[Archbio]

I could maybe be okay with it if they weren't continuing to push this "the Cylon God nuked us so let's all go worship him now" angle[...]

If they have to go that way, I think this episode is a definite improvement. At least it tackled some of questions raised by the plotline. Some, I thought, in intriguing ways*. It probably helped that the dubious cult of Baltar itself wasn't directly portrayed.

or letting the Cylons get away with shit about "human justice" without having someone point out "hey fuckers, remember when you murdered 12 billion people? Frak you!"

I thought the Six leadership was being intentionally portrayed as being hypocritical through the whole episode, with the whole 'blood for blood' incident being started by a Cylon seeking revenge for a temporary death.

I thought overall it was a good episode, a full head over the previous ones. If I had an issue with it, it was how suddenly everybody became rational, and that they became rational after there was some gunplay. On the upside, Gaeta was shot.

*Hello, Cylon-like projection!

[Kroze Gamegod]

Its about time this season started ramping up...
And man can Felix sing!

Also... in the previews, was that Badger I saw showing his little head once again?

Edit: Wait... we've got a dude with an eye patch, a dude with a peg leg, and now sea shanties.

it's a frakin pirate ship!

So does this make Baltar Pirate Jesus?

[Fifthfiend]

So apparently the Battlestar people just remembered they were making a show that's supposed to be good and not suck all the time?

That last episode had everything a battlestar episode ought to have, it even redeemed a lot of the lame shittiness they've been doing in every other episode so far this season. Like Lee Adama's transition to obnoxious political douchebag all of a sudden serves a dramatic purpose, and Tori's whole religous "Cylonism is awesome!" thing actually interests me now that it's an actual source of conflict for her. And it does my heart good to see Baltar dropping the might-actually-be-a-decent-human-being act and letting his douchebag colors fly.

Unfortunately the Sixes still apparently suck at everything which is kind of depressing. I mean come on Model Six do one thing that isn't a totally retarded obviously guaranteed bad idea, please? Also the whole thing where there's apparently one single point of failure for the Cylons' entire ability to regenerate feels extraordinarily contrived but eh what the hell, I'll live with it.

Also - Model Eights will fucking shoot you.

[Kroze Gamegod]

Was I the only one who saw Lee getting sworn in during the preview flashes?
If so, that would explain why we've been having to put up with all his political douchebaggery this season...

[Archbio]

That certainly was a very suspenseful episode.

Hey, The Admiral is suddenly relevant to the plot again!

I mean come on Model Six do one thing that isn't a totally retarded obviously guaranteed bad idea, please?

Well, I don't know. The moment she tries to, she gets shot.

Also the whole thing where there's apparently one single point of failure for the Cylons' entire ability to regenerate feels extraordinarily contrived but eh what the hell, I'll live with it.

The concept of the single hub makes sense to me, but the fact that the idea that they could have an inactive spare, or the ability to create a new one, isn't addressed at all by the characters I find downright disturbing.

Also: yay mortality?

[Jay]

Any thoughts on the most recent episode?

[Eltargrim]

It's a massive fucking cliffhanger that has left me simultaneously feeling joy and rage and "What the fuck are they going to do now?"

Fuck.

Fuck fuck fucking fucking fuck.

[Kroze Gamegod]

And the worst part of it all...
We don't get to see the conclusion till 2009!

Lets all thank Sci-Fi for this...

[Fifthfiend]

1. Holy shit.

2. Of all the things I expected to happen in that episode that wasn't one of them.

3. Of all the things I expected to happen when they found Earth that was actually kind of one of the lamer ones.

4. Rule of negotiations 37-C: When negotiating, make sure that the person you are trying to negotiate with is not Xena: Warrior Princess.

I like how she comes back and five minutes later without even announcing it she's running the entire Cylon ship and nobody's saying shit about it.

And it's totally believable because she's Xena: Warrior Princess and what are you going to do?

5. "I love you. Now if these fucksticks try anything I want you to nuke me." President Laura Roslin has balls of steel.

6. Baltar actually gets to do something smart and not-dickbaggy, that was actually a little weird.

[Archbio]

The ultimate cylon really has to be a character we thought dead at this point, right?

Baltar and Tigh are the mouthpieces of pure Reason.

[Mannix]

When they reached Earth I figured it'd be either a galactic super empire or just cavemen; bleak, post-nuclear hellscape wasn't one of the options that crossed my mind. I can't even guess as to what they're going to do with the 10 remaining episodes.

Also, did we ever find out for a fact that the break was going to take us into next year?

[Ryanderman]

actually, it's 11 episodes next year. And it's pretty much confirmed that it won't air till January 2009. Sucks.

Great episode to end the half-season on though. I'm very glad that the 3 of the final five anyone actually cares at all about didn't betray the Colonials. I was worried they'd end up going against character in the end due to some hidden programming or confused loyalties or something. But Tigh did the most honorable thing he could, and I loved it.

And frak Tory. No one ever liked her anyway.

[Eltargrim]

The scenario that I wanted, actually, was for them to be greeted by a barrage of missiles. Almost like a throwback to the original Galactica, but not terrible.

Didn't foresee this exact scenario, and like Fifth, I'm not terribly enthused. Oh well. At least now they'll actually have to do something, hopefully involving the Cylon Civil War. Campaign to retake the colonies, perhaps?

I find it hilarious that if they had given the final 3 to the Three, the beacon would have gone unnoticed.

This raises an issue; there's obviously some sort of power at work behind the scenes. This power wanted the Cylons and Humanity to get to Earth. Why?

[Fifthfiend]

The more they push the Cylon God (or whatever you want to call it) as some kind of legitimate metaphysical agent the more I hate it. I have trouble getting on board with a God with a Plan For All Of Us when that plan involves murdering 12 billion people.

I was actually kind of hoping Tigh would get tossed out the airlock. I mean I like Tigh I just thought it would have been great to be like "Remember your Final Five? Well now it's a Final Four! Suck on that, jerks!" I though that would have been a very Tigh way to go out too. "I'm a Cylon! And now I'm throwing myself out the frakking airlock!" It just seems to fit the whole Tigh approach to modern living. Moreso than that whole creepy Ellen-as-Six-who's-pregnant-now grossness that I really wish they'd stop doing.

And yeah Eltargrim is right, nobody ever liked Tory, and anyone says otherwise is kidding themselves. Every scene with her in it is a reminder of how much better it would be if Billy were still around.

Campaign to retake the colonies, perhaps?

Didn't the Cylons all leave the Colonies?

The ultimate cylon really has to be a character we thought dead at this point, right?

God I hope it's Billy.

[Ryanderman]

And yeah Eltargrim is right, nobody ever liked Tory

I knew you never actually believed I existed.

Maybe the final Cylon is off with the old model Cylons from Razor. They've got to come back into the story at some point don't they? Or were they all killed off?

[Eltargrim]

While you said it first, everyone knew I was thinking it first :p

But seriously, credit where credit is due.

As to the Colonies, the Civil War as officially frakked it all up. As far as we know, the Cavil faction has reclaimed it for the purposes of industry. In any event, if they are to retake the Colonies, the Cavil faction must be considered.

As to the final Cylon; for a second I thought it was the bird. But then I realized that that was crazy. Bill would be nice, but I'm almost hoping it's Roslin/Adama. The possibility for mindfuckery is amazing. And Adama isn't out of the picture, either, given how nobody is freaking out over Nicky (This is actually bugging me; they made a big deal out of Hera, and sure, she's the only crossbreed from one of the 7, but still, HELLO! Half-cylon right there!).

[Fifthfiend]

Nobody's really had much of a chance yet to even get around to trying to freak out about Nicky. And Tigh's got Caprica pregnant so who even the hell knows?

AFAIK Xena: Warrior Cylon knows what the fifth one looks like and it isn't anybody she's seen so far so Roslin etc. are out. I have to confess they totally got me with that "You know about the five but you don't know that you're one of them" psychout.

[Eltargrim]

Ah, touché Fifth. Way to crush my dreams.

I guess there's simply too much for them to handle right now. Sensory overload, as it were.

[grthwllms]

First episode of next season Starbuck is revealed to have kicked all drug problems and dumped her cylon boyfriend. She goes on to destroy the entire Cylon empire with her viper, a paperclip and a discarded Dell computer she found amongst the ruins of Earth.

My prediction, I'll stick to it until this show is over.

[Archbio]

I have to confess they totally got me with that "You know about the five but you don't know that you're one of them" psychout.

I have to confess that I nearly went "psyche, Fifthfiend!" out loud when that happened, but I was busy laughing.

The more they push the Cylon God (or whatever you want to call it) as some kind of legitimate metaphysical agent the more I hate it. I have trouble getting on board with a God with a Plan For All Of Us when that plan involves murdering 12 billion people.

I'm still deeply disbelieving this. I mean, it would be a colossal genre shift to actually go and have the Cylon God be literally supernatural. Even forgetting genre conventions, the conventions that the setting itself has laid out make the various supernatural events awfully believable as technological in origin. Even better, the theme of cyclical history makes a technological origin for everything, right down to the characters that we believe are human, awfully believable. What of the resurgence of vivid visions of an afterlife? Something is indeed happening, President Roslin.

And that's why I don't think Earth is going to be as much a dead-end as it seemed on the half season finale. I mean, there are shades of a "why would God need a spaceship?" scenario to the whole thing.

[Fifthfiend]

I'm still deeply disbelieving this. I mean, it would be a colossal genre shift to actually go and have the Cylon God be literally supernatural. Even forgetting genre conventions, the conventions that the setting itself has laid out make the various supernatural events awfully believable as technological in origin. Even better, the theme of cyclical history makes a technological origin for everything, right down to the characters that we believe are human, awfully believable. What of the resurgence of vivid visions of an afterlife? Something is indeed happening, President Roslin.

And that's why I don't think Earth is going to be as much a dead-end as it seemed on the half season finale. I mean, there are shades of a "why would God need a spaceship?" scenario to the whole thing.

I don't know, the show's producers have seemed somewhat intent on pushing the divine as a legitimate metaphysical entity. I guess it could be a setup though.

If it is a setup then it's kind of silly how all the characters have apparently fallen for it (or at least don't have objections strong enough to actually voice) considering as they have pretty much the same facts available to them as we do. Though I guess I sort-of even get that too; Gaius believes because it flatters his ego and assuages his guilt, Roslin went religious out of political expediency and finds that mode of thinking harder and harder to put away (also - cancer!), the four don't know up from sideways right now, Helo probably just considers that kind of shit above his rank, and generally everyone is one degree or another of desperate and frakked up and looking for something that makes sense of their three years of purgatory punctuated by hell.

Doesn't mean that I like it though.

I do kind of wish one time when some damn Cylon pipes up with "Well we tried to live with you on New Caprica and that didn't work" some human somewhere would jump in and be like "Because you tortured us! You showed up uninvited and you took over and you tortured the fuck out of us and a bunch of us died! So cut the bullshit!" Just, argh.

I think overall Greg Dean sums up my views:

http://reallifecomics.com/comics/2008/20080616_2014.png

In fairness I have to redirect some of my annoyance as part of this is, well, there was a writer's strike, and they did what they had to do. Doesn't make the intervening six-month wait for the end of the damn thing any easier but I do have to remember to apportion the bulk of my irritation about that away from Ron Moore and towards Faceless Studio Management Shitfucker #????

Anyway all the same I still see it as entirely probable that they'll close things with some manner of legitimate Divine Presence, as genre-shift or no they've dealt really heavily for some time now in religious themes that they mostly just seem entirely happy to play straight. At this point I'm leaning towards some kind of four-sided triangle 'where does God end and technology begin' nonsense. But who knows?

[Archbio]

I do kind of wish one time when some damn Cylon pipes up with "Well we tried to live with you on New Caprica and that didn't work" some human somewhere would jump in and be like "Because you tortured us! You showed up uninvited and you took over and you tortured the fuck out of us and a bunch of us died! So cut the bullshit!" Just, argh.

It's funny, but I think the only human who actually connects the claim to the reality is Gaius Baltar when he makes his speech in the mid-season finale. He calls the occupation of New Caprica by its name: brute force. The Cylons don't object.

(or at least don't have objections strong enough to actually voice).

I actually think that this is the biggest problem with this setup (and I don't want to think of it as anything else until there's no doubt than it's not and that I'm forced to punch through the screen.) There are some explicitely non-religious characters on the show. So, where are they on this? It might go way back to Kobol and Adama. Adama confronting the idea of basing the fleet's policy on visions is meticulously avoided. At first he objects in a feeble, non-specific way, then he goes along to "keep the fleet together."

Otherwise I'm putting the favour the supernatural explanation is getting to colonial society being heavily permeated by religion to begin with, and with the experiences these people are going through being very impressive. And the fact that no character has suggested alternate explanations might be a point in favor of it being a setup; maybe the fact that no characters are suggesting alternative explanations (instead being divided between people who believe and people who just ignore) is a sign of spoiler avoidance.

Did the producers actually came out and say something on the subject? Not that they couldn't be lying their asses off.

The more I think about it, the more it seems to me that it must be one extreme or the other. Either the supernatural occurances are really supernatural, or it is all applications of Cylon-like tech, which is made possible by all the characters being themselves the product of Cylon-like tech. If the latter is true, then maybe the characters are rational in just not considering the possibility (like Baltar ruling out the possibility when he doesn't find a chip), since it requires that everything they believe about their nature is wrong.

Am I the only one who thinks this is a possibility? After all: they were wrong about Earth and I think there's always been a differential between what the Cylons are described as being and what they truly are, something Caprica Six might have blatantly pointed out to Tigh at one point.

I kind of liked the Planet of the Apes-type ending. It would have been extremely funny as a series finale.