Rebirth of Destruction Discussion 5

[Krylo]

Well, seeming as the last one was at 130, here's a new one. And I posted up the ogre/orc/human battle in a bit more detail, although not a ton, and now you three (Biran, FZ, Jad) should know about where you are, and what the situation is. Namely, very hectic.

Sorry I haven't posted much, I never seem to have anything to say in RP discussion topics, and until now I didn't have much to do with the plot.I wasn't complaining, just pointing out your character. Would have used the name, but I don't remember it... Greg or something, wasn't it?

http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showthread.php?t=2033, sign-up thread, for info and what have you.

[Biran]

I wasn't complaining, just pointing out your character. Would have used the name, but I don't remember it... Greg or something, wasn't it?

I know you weren't complaining, I was just saying, so you know that I'm still checking the RP and discussion thread. And yes, his name is Greg.

Sometimes I wonder why I pick such obscure characters (Gnome, Morpher, Mime, etc.)...

[IHateMakingNames]

Can a vampire digest things?

The whole 'Undead' thing says no, but garlic is pretty worthless as a poison if vampires don't digest (Then they would never eat or drink).

Mainly asking because I was thinking of having Vlad swallow the telekenetic item he got so he can't lose it.

[Squishy Cheeks]

Your supposed to just chuck it at them or make them breathe it.

[IHateMakingNames]

Ok, a piece of garlic hits the vampire. Big deal. Just hitting them for a second isn't going to make them start to burn or anything.

And the vampire could just not breath, though they would need to know about the garlic before they started to breath it.

Edit - That does mean breathing it in works though.

[Squishy Cheeks]

It's a contact burn. Like holy water I suppose or fairies and iron.

[IHateMakingNames]

No, that is silver. Garlic is just a poison, like a poison to humans. If some one just through a ball of (solid) poison at you, it would just bounce off. It needs to get into your body some how.

[Krylo]

Sometimes I wonder why I pick such obscure characters (Gnome, Morpher, Mime, etc.)...Maybe because they're fun when you have something to do with them... who wouldn't want to be a character whose abilities have an equal chance of blowing them up as they do of working, or a character whose combat is glorified copy-catting? That's some fun stuff there. ...and I don't really know what a morpher is, I assume shape-shifter... and given that assumption I can't think of a funny way to put it.

And IHMN... um, I'm going to say they can sorta digest things. They can't survive off food, but they can drop it in their stomach mulch it up and send it back out one exit or the other. They get no nutrients from it, however. A small amount of food particles may get into the blood stream, but, normally, it would just get expelled after a trip through the circulatory system and not do anything for the vampire.

As for swallowing the psionic thingie... I think either way that might not be the best idea. Having a hunk of whatever bouncing about in your gut would probably be irritating... not to stop you. It just seems like something I wouldn't want to do.

[Forever Zero]

It is the fumes of the garlic that keeps vampires away. And there are such things as airborn toxins that can seep through or effect you at skin level. Garlic is that way to vampires, that's why human always wear it to ward them off, not because of contact burns, but the fumes keep vampires away because it is poisonous to them. That is also why to kill a vampire forever you need to stake it's heart, but you also need to cut off it's head and fill it's mouth with garlic.

Course, I pulled that from Dracula, so I don't know how krylo will handle garlic damage to vamps.

EDIT: Oh, and sorry for giving the Orcs and Ogres a war cry if you meant something specific, I was reading the Warhammer 40K rules for Orks, and was on the page of the "Waaagh!" special skill...

[IHateMakingNames]

Just the fumes of one thing of garlic won't do much. That would just make the vampire sneeze a lot or something. It was said in the bio a large amount of garlic is needed. Example I had was food, but a vampire could eat something with some garlic seasoning, but they would have an itchy throat.

[Krylo]

About the same way. If it gets into their blood stream, either through air-borne particles (which is what odor is), eating it and getting a bit into their blood stream, or grabbing it. Now it wouldn't burn, but would irritate them if they picked it up (like getting a little bit of bleach on your hand for about a minute, the annoying itchy sensation)... yada yada. The most direct way would be for them to swallow it.

And I already went with the stake kills it... don't need to do twenty things to a corpse.

[Forever Zero]

No, the humans always had lots of garlic, one clove would just be annoying. And when they used it, they put garlic everywhere and on everything. The garlic they wore on their necks was a last resort, they ususally just had tons of garlic all over their homes to keep vampires at bay, and the effect was so overwhelming in amount it worked.

I was just covering what it said in the book, I knew you had approved stakes as the weapon of choice against vamps.

[Krylo]

Yah... but... dude... humans from other cities would avoid them too...

[IHateMakingNames]

Thing is, a vampire could just not breath. They're dead, they don't need oxygen anymore. It would take much longer for the fumes to get anywhere when the vampire isn't breathing, giving him time to kill the target then get away from the garlic.

[Forever Zero]

Well, if your that paranoid about vampires, it owuld be a small price to pay I guess... I would just stick with holy relics as my weapon of choice...

And as for vapor, that is in this RP, so garlic is far less effective. In the book it was just being near garlic that was enough to keep a vampire away, but in the RP, garlic has little use except as seasoning and a weak attempt as poison... (Come on, how can you poison a vamps food with garlic if you can smell garlic from a mile away practically...)

So yah, book, very useful. RP, not so useful.

[IHateMakingNames]

Book = Crappy vampires. Sure you have to do a lot to kill them, but it's easy to get to that stage.

[Squishy Cheeks]

Books = vampires. Vampires should never be these nigh unstoppable creatures. because nothing is invulnerable. While you have fewer weaknesses than a mortal you still have weaknesses. So stop trying to worm your way out of it.

[IHateMakingNames]

I'm not worming my way out of anything. We already have a set usage of garlic on RP vampires, and I was just telling Forever those things, and he was comparing those to vampires in Dracula.

And we were using Dracula book, not just books in general. How many vampires would you need to compare if you used any book?

[Squishy Cheeks]

RP vampires are really retarded for the most part. Stick with tradition and traditional weaknesses

Holy things
sunlight
silver
garlic
mirrors
and
wooden stakes.

[IHateMakingNames]

Ugh... Would you like to get into the idea of every type of cultural vampire instead of just western if you want to get that specific? If not, then don't talk.

[Squishy Cheeks]

This is based in western fantasy. You get a western vampire. You're not a wendigo, or a pennagolan, You are a vampire in the vein of Dracula. even Nosferatu had the same weaknesses. Also some one should just chuck salt at you. You'd have to stop what your doing and count every grain as you pick them up.

[Forever Zero]

I've never heard of the salt or mirror weaknesses, but the rest I know about. Where did vamps having to count the salt come from, or mirrors?

And I also add that like Jad said, most fantasy here is based off of western fantasy, and western vampires in the fantast in question were weak against most of those.

[IHateMakingNames]

Who are the two main vampire novelist that were mentioned when I first made Vlad? Remember some one mentioning to names and saying how nigh invicible those vampires were, western ones I might add.

And isn't a lot of this based of Norse (Is that the word? Viking like...) mythology, not western?

Edit - Jad, that is Chinese vampires, not western. (The salt thing). They are obsessive and neat freaks.

[Krylo]

Mirrors aren't a weakness, so much as a tool for detection, and don't make much sense. If I can see a vampire, he reflects light... if he reflects light that light would hit a mirror and reflect back. It's silly.

All the other weaknesses they still have, just in different proportions. For instance, Dracula didn't have a lot of trouble with silver... Vlad would get a toasty-crispy hand if he picked one up. A priest could use a turn undead on Vlad and severely damage him, cause him to run in panic, or kill him. Probably only one of the first two due to his psionic willpower. Wooden stakes are far more deadly to him than they were in Dracula. If someone staked Drac and you pulled the stake out he'd be fine. Someone stakes Vlad and you pull the stake out... well... you have an extra piece of wood in your inventory. I also added a weakness to fire to those.

I don't see Vlad as being much stronger or weaker than a Hollywood-esque vampire... oh, and the mirror thing, purely hollywood. There aren't any traditional vampire myths where vampires can't see their reflection.

I'd also like to point out that if we're going on traditional vampire powers why not traditional eastern indian vampires. They could only be killed by a priest... Or how about traditional asian vampires. They didn't need to drink blood, and instead fed on life forces more directly, and psychicly. No biting needed. They also didn't have a weakness to silver or holy objects that I know of. Etc. etc.

[Squishy Cheeks]

The salt thing is eastern european. It is believed a vampire could only cross a line of salt if he had stopped and counted every grain. Vampires were believed to be compulsive counters. E.G. The count on sesame street.

[Forever Zero]

Well, if we started going with totally different regions vampires, IHMN would have to revamp his char since he would have a whole new set of strengths/weaknesses...

And also, the Western vampire is the most well known because of the influence of hollywood and the fact that they pull most of their vampire references out of either Dracula or out of thin air and just make stuff up. This is why 99% of the time, vampires follow a set guideline of what they do and do not need to include no matter what the show/movie. I didn't see them, but I'm sure the Buffy version of a vampire is different form the Underworld version of a vampire is different from the Dracula version of a vampire. No one can keep their vampire stories straight it seems, so now vampires can do a little bit of everything depending on who you ask or where you look. so that is why I wasn't disputing IHMN's powers specifically, just referencing Dracula and the vampires powers there since Dracula, for better or for worse, has become the primary reference when you want to bring up vampires and their abilities.

Oh, and if this was Dracula, you couldn't pass over running water either. I don't remember why, and it seemed stupid, but you couldn't. That is the good thing about everyone saying different, is along with the good things you want to leave in but have to take out, you can take out things you want to take out too. I don't know, but my point wasn't that vamps needed to be played differently, it was just that in Dracula, it went differently. Now that I lost my own point because I got distracted here once or twice, I'll just go back to finishing my update.

[Squishy Cheeks]

Hell Dracula was weakened by the sun not killed by it.

[Forever Zero]

That's cause Dracula was a really, really old vampire, and as generally accpeted Vampire Doctrine goes, the older a vampire gets, the stronger and more resistant to things that could/would kill it.

[IHateMakingNames]

I wonder if a mind bending vampire could help Zalbag with his problem...

[Forever Zero]

I'm not sure how. I was making this a semi-long term thing, and it would probably be resolved in a couple of chapters or something. How could a psyonic vampire help elimanate Magrolion?

[IHateMakingNames]

Crush him until he is nothing, Zalbag takes over, then it's Zalbag's job to keep Magrolion low and crushed. It's two seperate minds after all, just in one body, like Alcurd and Narg. And what I am suggesting is Zal would be like Alcurd, who is obviously just going to shove Narg into some corner and take over.

[Forever Zero]

Hmm, in theroy that would work. Magrolion would still be there, but as long as Zalbag could keep the mentally weakend Magrolion at bay, he could use the powers and not have him there. My only thought would be if he either tried to get back into the Amulet, taking his powers with him, or how would a split personality phychic crush work? They are technically two people, but they inhabit the same mind, so does Psychic Crush work based on attacking the brain of the target, or the personality/psyche/soul/whatever of a target?

[IHateMakingNames]

It works per personality/psyche/soul/whatever, so he could just affect Magrolion... Or Zalbag, depends on who gives a better offer.

[Forever Zero]

And that is why Zalbag isn't likely to go to Vlad for help... That and the fact that Zalbag doesn't know Vlad is a psyonic, and if Vlad said he was reading Zalbag's mind and realized it, Zalbag wouldn't be too happy, since he already has a crazed wizard going through his thoughts, he doen't want anyone else going through them...

[Krylo]

I'm partially tempted to have Alucard's Amulet end up on Zalbag's neck now. It'd be like a party in his brain... or a constant arguement...

Mag: He's mine, you damnable fool!
Al: I'm the god... I believe I decide who belongs to who.
Mag: I was here first!
Al: If you were anything more than a thought, I'd eradicate you...
Zal: Both of you SHUT UP!

[Forever Zero]

That is so close to how it would go... Having an ancient God of Destruction and a Half-Insane Arch Mage in your head can do that to you...

[Truce]

I can see an Omake for this already.

As for the running water thing, I've heard a lot of stories about undead not going over bodies of water such as streams, ponds, lakes...those type of stuff. I believe it has to do with the symbolism of water and the purity held within it. I would guess that Holy Water would concentrate that purity to be a more effective weapon against the undead.

Also, for garlic, I wonder...would concentrating it's properties make an effective poison? Not that I could do such a thing in the RP, as Rovial's a slave and wouldn't get a chance to, but I'm still wondering.

[Krylo]

What if it's muddy water?

And, yes... concentrated garlic would be an effective poison, if you could get it into the vampire's blood stream somehow.

[Forever Zero]

If we wanted to muddy the vampiric waters (No pun intended...) even more, I just grabbed a Vampire: The Masquerade rulebook, and they have yet another interpretation of vampires different from all the others that would contradict the RP and other accounts in general. Just to point out the vampiric flexability even more as to how they can be played, and I could actually list the difference if anyone cares to know.

[Krylo]

I think we could use some celes doing spy/assassin training for this chapter/character interaction outside of the battles, for filler. If we just stick straight to the battles like we've been doing, everything I want done for this chapter will be done well before one hundred posts. Also, it'd be nice to see Biran doing something as well.

[Forever Zero]

Biran is gone, Spring Break, and won't be back for a week. He can just have run off, and when he comes back if hes even still in this, he can post then. And if it ends ahead of time, you can just jump to the next chapter and leave the last one unmaxed out. Basically everyone has said they have nothing to do...

[Krylo]

True enough, although that's only half the reason. The other half being Ren is currently in party-mode as well. She hasn't left for anywhere, but she's going out just about every day and night, so it's hard to make her do what she needs to do for the RP. If I can't get her to do something by tomorrow, I may just shanghai her character for a little bit.

[Dante]

La la la la, Thailand sucks, Thailand sucks, la la la la...

Tra la la oomp-dee-day...

Sotto voce: IHMN, VtM weaknesses are the best. Stick with VtM weaknesses, because then you get VtM powers, which own.

FZ: Stop ripping off Dante. He will come for you from beyond the grave and Fireflash you into non-existence. That, and call down the never-before-seen Glorious Sword of Heaven upon the RP's head. And my steamboat wriggles with rancor. Stat!

La la la, Thailand sucks, la la la...

[Krylo]

...I think Thailand has driven him mad! No... wait... he's always like that, isn't he?

[Squishy Cheeks]

we need to involve more people in the story.

[Krylo]

Which will happen at the beggining of the next chapter, which is maybe five or six posts from me and Ren away, that I'll have everything done for this chapter. Which reminds me... I should post up some Narg stuff as well.

[Forever Zero]

I think the isolation of Thailand has driven him mad... Hey, I guess that makes Dante sort of like Magrolion now...

[Squishy Cheeks]

Oh go hit on some Thai chicks and get some kickass food.

[Krylo]

Tomorrow or the next day, depending on how busy I wind up being tomorrow, I'm time-warping this thing a little bit. Toss up a bunch of Narg stuff as well as some Ren/Jareth stuff (which will span a few days). Basically I'm going to close this gap of time where no one has anything to do and try to get to a point where people have things to do... now that I know there's still interest here.

If there's anyone that actually has something to do in that time just tell me, and I'll do it in a few posts instead of all that time at once.

Also, it would be nice if Celes could pm me something about her assassin training, or put something up... just so it doesn't seem as weird when all of a sudden she's a trained knife or short sword or whatever fighter/assassin/spy.