Seil
08-25-2007, 08:14 PM
The main arguments that I've heard center around the fact that the creators of the show used Ninja as a starting place, and created an entirely new profession from there. Not to mention the fact that they're not even on Earth, and hence, cannot be traditional ninja in the fashion that we perceive.
Now, the show is geared towards children. They think it's on Earth. Why create a brand new dimension in order to create a new "ninja?" What?
So? For about the third time this really isn't a show about Ninja I mean its not even based on Earth and or any place that even remotely tries to be Earth. The word Ninja just got used because it was the best way to describe the basic skill set of these people without having to give a long complicated explanation of who and what they are. A long complicated explanation about 3 people would watch and that would probably keep people for ever watching the show.
...
Well, three girls from Tokyo were zapped to a different dimension in Magic Knights Rayearth, and it took an episode to explain it, and what they had to do.
Dude have you ever actually seen the chivalric code. I mean they do have passing similarities the Jedi Code has about as much basis in chivalry as Naruto does in real Ninja. I mean even aside from the similarities between the codes true Medieval kights didn't actually follow any sort of code of combat. Much like Samurai bushido it didn't come into existence until the stabilizing peace of a strong central government gave knights a lot of free time by making them almost unnecessary. They just sat around and romanticized themselves and their past with this chivalric code that was abandoned the second they actually had to fight.
I was just inferring the similarities that they both had a code. I wasn't stating that their codes were word for word, I was stating that, "oh look - they both happen to follow a set of guidelines."
Further, and as mentioned before, if you watched only Anime that wasn't cliched and was generally great you'd watch about three series and then sit around bored out of your mind until you found something else to do. I'd rather be even mildly entertained. Of course I'm not even going to mention that if you wanted to watch a perfect anime you'd be waiting an awfully long time since nothing is ever perfect.
I'm not trying to watch a perfect anime. I'm trying to watch an anime which makes sense to me. Magic super-ninja (oh, sorry) Magic, super-people-who-are-not-ninja-but-based-on-ninja-so-that-people-will-have-a-general-idea-of-what-they-are-though-even-if-they-weren't-ninja-you-could-just-say-that-hey
-these-guys-studied-in-arts-not-unlike-ninja-but-they've-got-their-own-brand-of-magic-and-fighting-styles-so they're-similar-and-not-ninja, are going off on an adventure... but end up fighting other "ninja" everywhere that they go. And they're not going anywhere. The entire series just emphasizes the changes that they go though in character and personalities.
I've actually already listed an example in a spoiler. There are several generally they center around him doing a frontal assault with the majority of the clones and tricking his opponents into thinking he's an idiot. The few left over then do something sneaky/tactical. He does occasionally actually go crazy and just drop all tactics but thats just his personality. He shares that particular trait with Kazuma from S-Cry-ed and yet people I know enjoyed S-Cry-ed for that very reason hate Naruto for it. Not to mention he generally can't straight up overwhelm an opponent with clones because the more he makes the weaker they are individually because his chakra is evenly divided among them. It happens in like two plot relevant fights basically for nothing more than a bit of comedy and Naruto is almost as much about comedy as it is action.
Oh and once again Naruto is not about classical Ninja. It never tries to be about historical Ninja. It never even tries to be about the actual world we live in. Hell they shouldn't even be speaking a language we understand. The fact that they do is solely for the benefit of the audience. The fact that one word ended up with a slightly different meaning is indicative of the fact its a totally different world. Maybe you don't personally like over the top fantasy. That's your right. If you don't like over the top fantasy then avoid anything from Shonen Jump. Also, don't confuse personal preference with an actual failing there are a few bigger problems with this anime than Ninja that aren't quite Ninja because they live in a world that's definitely not Earth.
Oh and just because some of the fans of something are annoying and over zealous and generally not as intelligent as possible does not mean that something shares those traits.
Everyone has their own personal tastes. For me, I have an illogical, nigh un-explainable hatred for Naruto. Seriously. I pick up bugs and put them outside. I help aging ladies across the street. I help lost children to the authorities where they can be properly helped. I just hate Naruto. I do.
Heh. Naruto is not a classical ninja by any means. But in a situation where a group of people reside on a place that looks like Earth, and speak English, it's hard not to believe that they're on Earth. I have no problems with the creator using the actual Ninja as a starting point - I don't. What bothers me is that they call themselves Ninja - and it reminds me of people I meet online, stating that they're "OMFG ubar-1337." After conversations with them, they're obviously not computer-whiz-kids, they're much too young to have any life experience and what they're describing that you do if you kill them in an online game is gross. Naruto is not an actual Ninja - but it bothers me that they continue to call him that. I know that for all the younger people, it provides a point of reference... but if you're watching the show, you're probably a fan, and a few sentences in the beginning - maybe a voice-over "They trained at the magic academy, training themselves in the way of shadow, silence and subterfuge - creating their own brand of magic and martial art." Even in Magic Knights Rayearth, they're not Knights, they're Magic Knights. They use magic, and are different than actual knights - however they were based on Knights, so they're using the term "Magic" Knights. Why can't it be "Magic" Ninja?
Edit: I forgot to mention Jedi Knights are actually more based on traditional Japanese Samurai. Well at least the romanticized Samurai that came about for similar reason to the romanticized knight. If anything there true name should be Jedi Samurai. Even then neither romanticized version of the real thing is even remotely like their real counterparts. Neither Knights nor Samurai actually relied heavily on swords both were mounted archers of a sort. They both also utilized a long pole like reach weapon. Their swords were basically a last line of defense that you really didn't want to have to fall back to. The historical importance of the sword was so greatly exaggerated by both Samurai and Knights during their decline that its completely warped history. Most battles were fought with a combination of archers and pole are type reach weapons. No one used a sword unless they were somehow forced to and then they generally got slaughtered by the people using the polearm type reach weapons. This of course is at odds with Star Wars were the sword it elevated to a status even higher than the best ranged weapons.
Actually, the sword was the last defense for the Jedi, as well. It's just what they were the most well known for. Take The Phantom Menace for instance, the Jedi went to a ship completely unarmed, save for their sabers, to talk things out with the ambassadors. The ambassadors thought that it would be in their best interest to try to poison the Jedi and send droids after them. Now, on a mission where they're going to try to talk piece armed with nothing but what the general Jedi tries to keep close at their side with anyways, in a ship populated by poison, battle droids, roller droids and undoubtedly turrets - I'd think them using their lightsabre's was pretty much a last option.
Now, the show is geared towards children. They think it's on Earth. Why create a brand new dimension in order to create a new "ninja?" What?
So? For about the third time this really isn't a show about Ninja I mean its not even based on Earth and or any place that even remotely tries to be Earth. The word Ninja just got used because it was the best way to describe the basic skill set of these people without having to give a long complicated explanation of who and what they are. A long complicated explanation about 3 people would watch and that would probably keep people for ever watching the show.
...
Well, three girls from Tokyo were zapped to a different dimension in Magic Knights Rayearth, and it took an episode to explain it, and what they had to do.
Dude have you ever actually seen the chivalric code. I mean they do have passing similarities the Jedi Code has about as much basis in chivalry as Naruto does in real Ninja. I mean even aside from the similarities between the codes true Medieval kights didn't actually follow any sort of code of combat. Much like Samurai bushido it didn't come into existence until the stabilizing peace of a strong central government gave knights a lot of free time by making them almost unnecessary. They just sat around and romanticized themselves and their past with this chivalric code that was abandoned the second they actually had to fight.
I was just inferring the similarities that they both had a code. I wasn't stating that their codes were word for word, I was stating that, "oh look - they both happen to follow a set of guidelines."
Further, and as mentioned before, if you watched only Anime that wasn't cliched and was generally great you'd watch about three series and then sit around bored out of your mind until you found something else to do. I'd rather be even mildly entertained. Of course I'm not even going to mention that if you wanted to watch a perfect anime you'd be waiting an awfully long time since nothing is ever perfect.
I'm not trying to watch a perfect anime. I'm trying to watch an anime which makes sense to me. Magic super-ninja (oh, sorry) Magic, super-people-who-are-not-ninja-but-based-on-ninja-so-that-people-will-have-a-general-idea-of-what-they-are-though-even-if-they-weren't-ninja-you-could-just-say-that-hey
-these-guys-studied-in-arts-not-unlike-ninja-but-they've-got-their-own-brand-of-magic-and-fighting-styles-so they're-similar-and-not-ninja, are going off on an adventure... but end up fighting other "ninja" everywhere that they go. And they're not going anywhere. The entire series just emphasizes the changes that they go though in character and personalities.
I've actually already listed an example in a spoiler. There are several generally they center around him doing a frontal assault with the majority of the clones and tricking his opponents into thinking he's an idiot. The few left over then do something sneaky/tactical. He does occasionally actually go crazy and just drop all tactics but thats just his personality. He shares that particular trait with Kazuma from S-Cry-ed and yet people I know enjoyed S-Cry-ed for that very reason hate Naruto for it. Not to mention he generally can't straight up overwhelm an opponent with clones because the more he makes the weaker they are individually because his chakra is evenly divided among them. It happens in like two plot relevant fights basically for nothing more than a bit of comedy and Naruto is almost as much about comedy as it is action.
Oh and once again Naruto is not about classical Ninja. It never tries to be about historical Ninja. It never even tries to be about the actual world we live in. Hell they shouldn't even be speaking a language we understand. The fact that they do is solely for the benefit of the audience. The fact that one word ended up with a slightly different meaning is indicative of the fact its a totally different world. Maybe you don't personally like over the top fantasy. That's your right. If you don't like over the top fantasy then avoid anything from Shonen Jump. Also, don't confuse personal preference with an actual failing there are a few bigger problems with this anime than Ninja that aren't quite Ninja because they live in a world that's definitely not Earth.
Oh and just because some of the fans of something are annoying and over zealous and generally not as intelligent as possible does not mean that something shares those traits.
Everyone has their own personal tastes. For me, I have an illogical, nigh un-explainable hatred for Naruto. Seriously. I pick up bugs and put them outside. I help aging ladies across the street. I help lost children to the authorities where they can be properly helped. I just hate Naruto. I do.
Heh. Naruto is not a classical ninja by any means. But in a situation where a group of people reside on a place that looks like Earth, and speak English, it's hard not to believe that they're on Earth. I have no problems with the creator using the actual Ninja as a starting point - I don't. What bothers me is that they call themselves Ninja - and it reminds me of people I meet online, stating that they're "OMFG ubar-1337." After conversations with them, they're obviously not computer-whiz-kids, they're much too young to have any life experience and what they're describing that you do if you kill them in an online game is gross. Naruto is not an actual Ninja - but it bothers me that they continue to call him that. I know that for all the younger people, it provides a point of reference... but if you're watching the show, you're probably a fan, and a few sentences in the beginning - maybe a voice-over "They trained at the magic academy, training themselves in the way of shadow, silence and subterfuge - creating their own brand of magic and martial art." Even in Magic Knights Rayearth, they're not Knights, they're Magic Knights. They use magic, and are different than actual knights - however they were based on Knights, so they're using the term "Magic" Knights. Why can't it be "Magic" Ninja?
Edit: I forgot to mention Jedi Knights are actually more based on traditional Japanese Samurai. Well at least the romanticized Samurai that came about for similar reason to the romanticized knight. If anything there true name should be Jedi Samurai. Even then neither romanticized version of the real thing is even remotely like their real counterparts. Neither Knights nor Samurai actually relied heavily on swords both were mounted archers of a sort. They both also utilized a long pole like reach weapon. Their swords were basically a last line of defense that you really didn't want to have to fall back to. The historical importance of the sword was so greatly exaggerated by both Samurai and Knights during their decline that its completely warped history. Most battles were fought with a combination of archers and pole are type reach weapons. No one used a sword unless they were somehow forced to and then they generally got slaughtered by the people using the polearm type reach weapons. This of course is at odds with Star Wars were the sword it elevated to a status even higher than the best ranged weapons.
Actually, the sword was the last defense for the Jedi, as well. It's just what they were the most well known for. Take The Phantom Menace for instance, the Jedi went to a ship completely unarmed, save for their sabers, to talk things out with the ambassadors. The ambassadors thought that it would be in their best interest to try to poison the Jedi and send droids after them. Now, on a mission where they're going to try to talk piece armed with nothing but what the general Jedi tries to keep close at their side with anyways, in a ship populated by poison, battle droids, roller droids and undoubtedly turrets - I'd think them using their lightsabre's was pretty much a last option.