A thought about reputation.

[Nikose Tyris]

Right now, the way we have it, it works. But while browsing some other forums, I noticed they have a weekly rotating 'star' system. It does not display your highest weekly, it does display your current rep; every sunday at noon, Rep resets to 10.

Each person gives out rep from their own tallies, until they reach 0. Admins and Moderators can give 'super stars' without subtracting from their own rep, but cannot adjust their own rep. they are simply always set to, "999 rep".

I know Rep is a meaningless, trivial thing, but when we took Rep away, people used post count as forum dick. If we took that away, we'll use Join date. With this system, people are constantly striving to show they are acting in accordance to the rules, and that they contribute to this place.

Just a thought I figured was worthy of a mention, at least.

Hoping for Mod/Admin response, obviously fair game for all.

Also, I know Mesden will have an alteration for this that makes it way better or needless.

[Elbodo]

Originally posted by Nikose:
Each person gives out rep from their own tallies, until they reach 0. Admins and Moderators can give 'super stars' without subtracting from their own rep, but cannot adjust their own rep. they are simply always set to, "999 rep".

Ok, so people can't neg-rep each other. That's good 'cause it means people can't use rep as a means to flame. But does it mean that to posi-rep somebody else you'd have to neg-rep yourself?

Other than that I guess it'd be kinda nifty, as long as resetting rep isn't too onerous for the mods.


EDIT: Personally, I plan on measuring my forum dick according to how many people I can get to wear an avatar that I made or helped with. Of course, right now I'm still new so I'm hung like a horse(fly). :p

[Flarecobra]

I don't see how that system works at all. Our current system works, why change it?

[Nikose Tyris]

I'm suggesting change because 5 times now I've seen people using post count as 'forum dick,' or, 'You suck because I have more posts than you, and therefore know more than you.'

It's stupid and childish, while this system (while flawed) also makes people strive to make intelligent posts.

Besides, everything changes sometimes. without change, we wouldn't have the forum games section.

[Flarecobra]

Thing is, because those who think that just because they have a high post count that they're special, doesn't really understand just what this forum means. We try to discurage cliques, and the like. The Mods, they're our benevolent dictators. They're willing to hear out forumites, but their word is law, and we have to accept it.

[Nikose Tyris]

I'm not arguing that fact; hell, that's my beleif too. I just wanted to suggest an alternate reputation system, that looked like it might be both fun, and a positive thing to try and introduce.

The subtracting from your own accumulated 'stars' means that you don't have the old issue of, "Repping sprees." and makes people think before mindlessly giving it out.

Like I said, it was just a suggestion.

[Flarecobra]

This just occured to me: What if they can't change it, as it's part of the forum package?

[Nikose Tyris]

Then the whole thing is moot, of course. But with the amount of modification I've seen done to Vbulletin boards ((Just ask our resident spoony bard)) I think it's likely a rather simple update.

[Sithdarth]

If there is one thing I know about PHP things is that its hardly ever as simple as just an update. Especially since this seems like a rather complex system that would probably have to be hand coded by someone. I just have a feeling no one has bothered with such a complex rep system.

Now on to the main point. Shifting the "forum dick" thing from one useless statistic to another doesn't really do anything. The reasons behind it are still there. The behaviors that cause it are still there. Just because a person makes smart funny post while being an overbearing jerk doesn't really improve the situation. Its like taking all the landfills and dumping them in the ocean, it just doesn't solve the problem.

[Nikose Tyris]

Well, it does help, actually. You'd have to pay out of your own reputation to rep someone else. Just because someone posted something funny, are you going to give out 1-5 points of your own rep? Not likely; you're more likely to hold them for something deserving of it, such as an interesting and factual rebuttal that actually makes you think. will it stop the forum dick? No. but water does dillute all kinds of poisons, making them less harmful.

[edit] it's kind of nice that this is being discussed so well. I can see that it probably will take a lot of coding, too. the C3 Forums have something similar to this idea, where they reset the reputation every week, with the change in theirs that people cannot see how many stars they actually have. (Rowen_wind told me about it, who I met a few days ago; she's on the C3 forums.)

[edit2] I accidentally spoke like it was a sure fire thing, which it definitely IS NOT. in fact, the whole thing is very unlikely to proceed at all, although I beleive it may warrant, at least, a read through on viability.

[shiney]

Two things:

Also, I know Mesden will have an alteration for this that makes it way better or needless.Regardless of past performances, that was unnecessary. That in itself can be construed as a flame. Further, given your own history with this board, you're hardly one to point fingers. My point can be summed up in two words: Shut up.

I'm suggesting change because 5 times now I've seen people using post count as 'forum dick,' or, 'You suck because I have more posts than you, and therefore know more than you.'If they are doing this...report the post? It is pretty much explicitly against the rules, ergo a violation, ergo a warning/ban. Maybe I'm just not getting the reported posts, or maybe you're blowing smoke up our asses, but for future reference if someone does that please report it so we can slow-roast them in a spicy marinade of southern origin, and then feast upon the various delicacies remaining after the traditional meal (complete with mashed potatoes and of course corn on the cob).

Oh yeah, and the whole point of your post. I forgot about that bit. We're gonna keep it how it is while we conduct a feasibility study on the proposition*.

* Above reads: Get drunk and laugh at how stupid everyone is.

[Sithdarth]

Now you are just adding meaning to something that doesn't really need to have meaning. Not to mention just because a person makes rational well thought out posts does not mean they aren't going to turn into a complete ass because they got rep for it. I mean sure its potentially less people but with this system the thing they are bragging about actually does have some sort of meaning. Its an added justification that could just make the entire thing worse.

That's not even getting into the whole popularity contest and cliques thing.

Side note: sure throwing it into the ocean dilutes the posions but kills loads of fish, poisons a greater number of people and is just generally a worse way of dealing with it.

If you want to get rid of the behavoir remove all the useless stat tracking. That's the absolute best solution.

edit: Damn shiney and his ninja admin ways. Damn I say!

[Nikose Tyris]

M'kay then, I just wanted to voice it.

and actually, I was hoping that Mesden WOULD contribute to it; I wasn't flaming her. She usually makes pretty well thought out suggestions to ideas, and I was hoping she would reply, like Sithdarth and Flare did.

[edit] and an apology to any who were offended by what I said, as I realize I was misconstrued.

[Fifthfiend]

forum dick
forum dick
forum dick

Well, I see that's part ouf our little lexicon now. Good good, because that is just what I was hoping would happen.

On a totally unrelated note, I fucking hate you people.

We try to discurage cliques

Correction:

We try to discourage cliques.

You do like we goddamn tell you!

Now back to the fields, you, 'fore you taste the lash!

Regardless of past performances, that was unnecessary. That in itself can be construed as a flame.

Now now. He's not flaming Mes because he doesn't like her.

He's flaming Mes because she is the single worst human being in all of history.

No seriously, they did a study.

[TheSpacePope]

Correction:

We try to discourage cliques.

You do like we goddamn tell you!

Now back to the fields, you, 'fore you taste the lash!

I just thought that you might want to use this as your mantra master!
XD XD XD
I'll think of fifth When I listen to this song for ever since you said that
XD
Barber
Get this mirror cleaned
I'm troubled by the face I see before me
As we shave our nations face
Keep a steady hand
Listen to these words that soon will ring across the land
Wield the Spade
Ready the blade
Sacrifices must be made
There are many fools who dare propose imposing limits on my power
Those ungrateful who've been swayed by intellectuals in their ivory towers
They will pay for crimes that God and I will not allow
Some before the firing squad and some behind the plough
Wield the spade
Barber
Get this mirror cleaned
I'm troubled by the face I see before me
Be careful not to miss a whisker
Soon I face my people who adore me
As you shave our nations face
Keep a steady hand
Listen to these words that soon will ring across the land
Wield the spade
Ready the blade
Sacrifices must be made
Barber
You've done very well
Much cleaner now
The mirror's telling no lies
I know I'm not imagining the telltale glint of death I see in your eyes
I can't trust you
So I must do something with my knife
It's a shame to lose a damn good barber
But that's life
Wield the spade
Ready the blade
Sacrifices must be made

A little song always brings joy to my heart.
It's wield the space by Oysterhead, Hear it in stereo!

[Mesden]

Just, you know, throwing this out there.

There is no such goddamn thing as a forum dick.

I mean, that's such a stupid concept that I can't even make fun of it anymore. Me, Mesden, girl KNOWN to carry on a joke FAR too long, just can't make fun of it anymore.

Oh, and this?



Now now. He's not flaming Mes because he doesn't like her.

He's flaming Mes because she is the single worst human being in all of history.

No seriously, they did a study.

Atleast I count as a human being, you sick...thing you.

I mean, you can describe how bad I am, but when it comes to you, there just aren't words.

Maybe Suckassitudeouchenous, but that's barely getting to it.

Shiney: Not to be condescending or anything, but I can take zeh joke. I mean, it's not a big deal. I just want to know why everyone feels like throwing my name EVERYWHERE.

Oh, and "Regardless of past performances"? Does that mean I make things better or completely shoot them down all the time?

Dude, thanks Shiney! XD

[Mirai Gen]

If it helps, I really did read the sentence about Mesden as "She can help more than anyone else can" literally. She has that way of saying, "Well, that's a good idea, but this is better," that just kind of slaps you in the face with a big piece of wood called "The Right Stick."

Anyway.

Speaking on the level of the "Forum Dick" thing, I was sad to see rep go, but it's going to stay that way because the mods felt the need to change it. I disagree, but I don't see how it matters in the end. Rep was always silly to begin with.

Besides; the whole point of changing rep to what it was now wasn't really to compare to other members. It was more like a warning to yourself and the mods about your behavior. Red and grey boxes are like little motivational posters stuck to the edges of your monitor. That grey box I have still has that way of reminding me to watch what I say in the Discussion forum.

Think of it like this. Here's a picture in the center of the motivational poster. (http://clappstar.com/mt/past/357_5715bigmouthstrikesagain.jpg)

Not Being A Dick.

Sometimes, you really just have to shut your fucking piehole.

[Mesden]

Mirai, your post contained knowledge on a 'big piece of wood' that you have aptly named 'The Right Stick' which precludes 'dick' in its own context.

And you end it about shutting 'fucking pieholes'.

I'm sorry, but that's just too much.

Nikose: Honestly, your idea has merit, but, if you HONESTLY want Mesden's alterationatatingmajigger skills, here's my alteration.

*Rant that pertains to the ending choice*

NOTHING, ever, should be counted as a online message board phallus. It's just plain stupid to think that people that are mostly adults or atleast have a good maturity level could begin to measure worth on an online sprite comic forum according to post count (OH GOD, I make several dozen irrelevant points and play a lot of RPs, that makes me BETTER), join date (I've been here longer and that makes me better, no matter HOW many times I've broken the rules and no matter HOW much of an upstanding forumer you are!), rep (Hahaha! I got people to like me! I'm that popular girl in school that a lot of people still wish would shutup!) or anything else.

Rep, as of now, is about what Mirai put it. It's a warning that you can't just forget about and shows the severity of what you've done. That's a pretty damn good use for it, don't ya think?

And, hey, positive rep means you did something really good. Great! Doesn't make you better, but atleast you did something pretty awesome.

To put it bluntly:

I just don't like the idea of 'repping' people in any way through the forumers themselves, because all that does is encourage forum dickery (Double meaning).

There's such thing as trying too hard, and I'm quite sure it'll happen with your idea. Again.

And that's Mesden's alteration rant. I guess I went with the 'needless' side, eh, Nikose?

[Mirai Gen]

Okay, seriously, too much phallic imagery.

Mesden - The opposite side of the spectrum consisted of rep, a silly thing nobody really cared about, which to some people doubled as a forum wang. I believe rep was silly to begin with and always was.

Now, stop me if I'm wrong about this, but people who subscribe to the forum are going to be new, and if they don't realize that nobody is supposed to care about the rep/post limit/join date parts, they will pick one to be that person's worth. I don't think that modifying which one they pick even matters. New people will find something to compare, and nobody can stop them. Hell, IHMN has over 10,000 posts. Does it mean anything? Not really, other than he spends alot of time here. But people won't really 'get that', especially not if they're young (Which happens. Nothing wrong with that.)

The mods, however, can stop people from using what other people would percieve as an excuse to bully people around (without being a mod/admin, of course, because then it's not bullying at all).

So, yeah. That's more or less why I always never gave much thought to rep - indeed, never knew about it till it was already locked out. People who are new will find numerical values for a person's 'worth', and people who attempt to use that number to their advantage get slapped.

Get equipped with Nonsensical Rant!

[Truce]

Now let's pretend I agreed with the idea to change rep. Emphasis on pretend. It wouldn't be Nikose's idea. I know he's trying to help, but...well, for one thing, it goes against what it's intended to do: get the forumers to regulate themselves.

First off, we never took Rep away. We've simply limited who can rep now to just the mods, and it's used less to reward people and more to warn them about their behavior; there's nothing wrong with that. Mods are the ones supposed to moderate the forum anyway, and people don't (or rather, shouldn't, because it's lame) need a little green rectangle telling them they're awesome.

Second, since Rep would reset every Sunday, it wouldn't really add anything aside from a lot of work needed to code it and maybe have weekly rep wars once in a while, and idiots who create new accounts to rep themselves.

By the way, just how big of a problem are "forum dicks" anyway? They've always seemed like a small issue to me.

[Mesden]

By the way, just how big of a problem are "forum dicks" anyway? They've always seemed like a small issue to me.

When it's brought up about a dozen times spanning in a week about how sucky or stupid it is or how it's not a big deal, it's pretty much out of hand for what it freaking is.

And that being a moronic. So, I mean, just a request. Just drop the stupid damn subject of 'forum dicks', please, people.

God, Fifth had to go and coin that stupid phrase. I BLAME YOU, FIFTH. Blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaame.

[Truce]

See, the thing is, outside of this topic I haven't even seen the word "dick" following "forum" for quite a while now.

[Mesden]

Here's where Fifth coined the stupid phrase. (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showpost.php?p=423349&postcount=3)

And there've been a series of usage and jokes about it for a while, but it's not the term 'forum dick' but what it means, honestly. That a person is somehow superior to another because of certain things like post count, join date, rep and other things. That, in and of itself, is an inane way to view things and viewing yourself as truly superior because of trivial matters like that is goddamn idiotic, if you were to ask me.

So, 'forum dick' is just a name for the real, pathetic topic. It's what sprung rep whoring, it's what sprung newb hazing, it's just an ideal of being better for no real reason.

[Truce]

For the record, in my last post, I was talking about Fifth apparently coining the phrase; before this topic, the term "Forum Dick", or even the words Forum and Dick haven't been used in posts for roughly two weeks.

Shoulda made that clear, heh. ^^;

As for forum dickery itself, I usually see the problem as the person just being a plain ol' dick; they generally act that way anyway.

[Fifthfiend]

There is no such goddamn thing as a forum dick.

I'm going to go ahead and say that probably covers just about everything that needs to be said.

Instead of fretting about this or that reputation scheme, or whether and how seriously this or that forum statistic is being taken, if we just put all that energy into not being jerks - I'm pretty sure the whole thing will work out on it's own.

[shiney]

To be precise, there is no longer such a thing (here) as a forum dick. There certainly was (look I am using fifthfiend-style italics, I too am a follower?!) however that was the reason rep was taken down.

People would rep each other for stupid reasons.

- People would actually organise groups to ensure they maintained a certain position in the rep ladder.
- People would rep, then counter-rep because they were repped, then counter-counter rep for the same reason, and so on.
- People would use negative rep as a "legitimate" means of flaming, and use the excuse "it's enabled so we didn't think it would be against the rules".
- People would boast about their rep counts, constantly, and have hourlong discussions regarding it.

These are only a few of the myriad of reasons why the reputation system is no longer enabled for everyone. There are a few whom I have considered giving it back to over time but I believe we only have one person who is not a mod who can actually give reputation any longer. This is because over time almost all of those people have proven they are simply unable to handle pretty much any forum responsibilities.

Lastly, please, never again let a forum-related stuff topic go off topic and start posting about internet messageboard genetalia. Or anything else for this matter. Spam and off topic posts aren't harshly stamped on in this forum because there isn't yet a stigma attached but I am glad to provide one if this sort of thing occurs again.