The curse of the Smash Bros Brawl Duiscuss!on Thread

[greed]

So last one got closed for going off topic, another topic about machinima suggested there was a need for another one of these threads, and so we don't all get modded for talking about video games in the animation board I greed proudly present
THE GREAT SMASH BROS BRAWL THREAD

Links
1st SSBB Thread (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showthread.php?t=14104)
2nd SSBB Thread (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showthread.php?t=14228)
Machinima toipic that started this thread (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showthread.php?t=14424)
Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Smash_Bros_Brawl)
Official Site (http://www.smashbros.com/en/)
Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FO83eZdWks&search=Super%20smash%20Bros%20Brawl)



List of characters we know are returning
Mario
Link(TP Form)
Samus
Pikachu
Kirby

Confirmed New Characters
Metaknight
Pit
Zero Suit Samus(As a transformation or something rather than a whole character.See Here (http://www.smashbros.com/en/characters/chara3/index.html).)
Wario (Warioware form)
Solid Snake

Fair Assumptions
Little Mac*
?King Ashnard?(See Neko Tera-san's 3rd post and Novasol's 1st in the 2nd thread)

List of characters who topped the petition in Japan and the games head guy likes enough to consider.
Hammer Bros. (Super Mario Bros. - 1985)
Toad (Super Mario Bros. 2 - 1988)
King K. Rool (Donkey Kong Country - 1994)
Claus (Mother 3 - 2006)
Lucas (Mother 3 - 2006)
Lololo and Lalala (Kirby's Dreamland - 1992)
King Dedede (Kirby's Dreamland - 1992)
Geno (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars - 1996)
Oguma (Fire Emblem: Ankoku Ryuu to Hikari no Tsurugi - 1990)
Sigurd (Fire Emblem: Seisen no Keifu - 1996)
Ike (Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance - 2005)
The Black Knight (Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance - 2005)
Black Shadow (F-Zero X - 1998)
Dragon Chan (Super Punch-Out!! - 1994)
Ray 01 (Custom Robo - 2004)
Captain Olimar (Pikmin - 2001)
Lip (Panel de Pon - 1995)
Sukapon (Joy Mech Fight - 1993)
Professor Kawashima (Brain Age: Train Your Brain in Minutes a Day - 2006)


Third Party Suggestions

Mega Man (Capcom) (Mega Man - 1987)
G-Red (Capcom) (Gotcha Force - 2003)
Simon Belmont (Konami) (Castlevania - 1986)
Princess Katia (From Software) (Lost Kingdoms - 2002)
Kalas (tri-Crescendo/Monolith Soft) (Baten Kaitos: Eternal Wings and the Lost Ocean - 2003)

*From Dragon Chan's presence in the maybes, we can make a fair assumption Little Mac is in already.

Levels
What seems to ruins floating in the sky.
A very cool Fire Emblem castle(Thanks Neko)
Metaknight's Halberd
Possibly a desert stage

There are Super Moves

So yeah, what do you think of the new characters, levels, the Super Moves the inclusion of third parties, the list being considered. What characters and levels and other things do you want in the game?

[neyo the king]

One word.

Metaknight.

Prepare, for thou art about to confront a whirling torrent of pain!

With that out of the way, I would like to announce that Pit being in this game automaticly makes it more awesome than a Snake-in-a-box. Speaking of which, since Solid Snake has snuck into the fray, who knows who else might show up! I use to think that third party characters would never make it! Megaman would be a pleasant suprise, as would Geno, but I'd be delighted to see Captain Olimar.

And, to the big question, how will you play SSB:B with the Wii-mote? Will there be a special attachment for the game? Will certain motions trigger certain attacks? Will it all work? Only time will tell.

And what a time it shall be. Oh, Wii, Will you not come faster?

[Kenryoku_Maxis]

And, to the big question, how will you play SSB:B with the Wii-mote? Will there be a special attachment for the game? Will certain motions trigger certain attacks? Will it all work? Only time will tell.

They already announced Brawl is going to use a standard controller interface, most likely the GameCube controller you stick the Wii controller into to use. I'm guessing they'll probably add the ability to move the controller (like the PS3 movement lol) for a move or two, but the majority of the rest will be standard GC like button layout.

Also, fresh from the rumor mill, IGN has stated a rumor that the good boys at Nintendo may only allow for 1 vs 1 matches online because they cannot secure lag free gameplay with more people. Although I primarily enjoy 1 vs 1 matches more, this is a big blow seeing as the staple of the series is to be the most crazy fighter ever. And the majority of that status comes from theability to have 4 characters on screen at once throwing items at each other.

[Fifthfiend]

There's only so much you can talk about one game with no plotline and a deliberately uncomplicated play style which isn't even anywhere near being released.

[Donomni]

Indeed, Fifth.

I'll say it before, and I'll say it again: This game should have Sonic. Give us the ability to officially end the Mario v. Sonic debate once and for all!

[Mac]

Geno.

If nintendo has a soul, they will put in Geno. Let the little doll live again. :D

I could care less who else they put in as long as Geno is in it.

[Mirai Gen]

Huh. Damn. And I was hoping they'd put Sol Badguy in.

DRAGON INSTARUUUUUUUUUUU! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sol_Badguy)

[Ogianres]

Putting Sonic into SSBB will never end the Sonic vs. Mario debate. Ever. It will only cause it to be reignited, with thousand of sweaty fanboys screaming at eachother "OMFG MRIO CNT LOSE OMG U JUTS SUXXORS!!!11!1" "LOL SONIC IS FSTAT HOW CAN HE LSOE?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!" which should lead to licenses for hunting fanboys. And I want King Dedede in their, just to compare him to Meta-Knight as Kirby's villians.

[Chaoswizard]

put in someone from TOS or SOA ^_^

[Regulus Tera]

Huh. Damn. And I was hoping they'd put Sol Badguy in.

DRAGON INSTARUUUUUUUUUUU! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sol_Badguy)

You sir are awesome, Mr. Badguy. I want you to have my babies. Even if it is phisically imposible to do so.

Could a mod stick this thread? I'm pretty sure that, even though the game is not going to come until next year, this topic will be brought back more than once in the meantime.

[phil_]

I'd just like to request that this:List of characters who may not be Returning + Wholly Unconfirmed Rumour
Game and Watch
Ice climbers
Young Linkand this:Possible New Chars + Again Unconfirmed rumour
Ridley
Wind Waker Link(Cel shaded young Link)
Baby Bowserbe taken off the first post, as it's based off something a guy on the Neo-GAF boards made up that 1up took seriously. I'd just like to do my part for allieviating mis-information on the intarweb. Remember, when we spread rumors around, we give them our precious life-energy, making them stronger and turning us into the living dead.

EDIT:I keep timing out when I try to verify this link, but this (www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3517129) should link to the post that started this rumor.

[Mirai Gen]

You sir are awesome, Mr. Badguy. I want you to have my babies. Even if it is phisically imposible to do so.
Well, shit. At the very least it gives you a ton of yaoi slash fiction ideas.

And I second the idea to sticky the thread. It's going to get made over and over.

I'm curious, though, Alot of people constantly say "A fair assumption is Little Mac."

Why?

[Nique]

also, the wiki article has been screwed around with it looks like.

Having Snake in this game looks... weird. Weird like the VG cats version of it 'weird'.

And could this game have ANY MORE T&A (http://www.smashbros.com/en/characters/chara3/index.html)?!

I'm disgusted.

[Kenryoku_Maxis]

I'm curious, though, Alot of people constantly say "A fair assumption is Little Mac."

I don't know either. I don't see him working at all (and he wasn't on the petition list).

[greed]

It's because Dragon Chanan enemy from Super Punch Out is in, it would be like having Ridley, but no Samus if they didn't have Little Mac as well. So seeing as Dragon Chan is even being considered one can see that Little Mac should already be in.

So that Swedish show really is bunk? Thought it was but put it up as a rumour anyway. I'll remove it then unless someone proves it right.

[[ray.z]]

Dragon Chanan is not confirmed to be in the game!

It's in the maybe list - not confirmed new characters list. If he was going to be in it, then he would be in there.

And there's already alot of people in the maybe list anyway. It'll be like trying out for a sports team - there are gonna be cuts, especially since it seems unreasonable that they would put in every single character in the maybe list. I reckon we'll be lucky if they put five of them.

And so you see, to assume that Little Mac will be in the game because we are hoping that Dragon Chanan will be is very unreasonable. We can wish as much as we want (though I ain't), so until it comes out of the horses mouth that Dragon Chanan is a confirmed playable character, we can't say that:

Originally posted by people who make assumptions about anything
A fair assumption is Little Mac.
Just remember - to assume is to make an ass out of u and me.

[DarkCORN!]

also, the wiki article has been screwed around with it looks like.

Having Snake in this game looks... weird. Weird like the VG cats version of it 'weird'.

And could this game have ANY MORE T&A (http://www.smashbros.com/en/characters/chara3/index.html)?!

I'm disgusted.
Uh...yeah. It could. Case in point, the Dead or Alive series.

Anyway, this game looks promising. If I buy a wii (very unlikely. a remote control for a controller is just stupid!) I will play this game. Also, they should put Sam Fisher and some Final Fantasy characters in it.

[Mirai Gen]

Uh...yeah. It could. Case in point, the Dead or Alive series.
Fuck. Beat me to it.

[Nique]

Maybe the complete lack of any real T&A in those screens was not a big enough clue as to my sarcasm?

All joking aside, I appriciate that Samus isn't done-up with her lady parts hanging out so excessivly, as that might seem out of charecter, but she's still lookin' good in a skin tight outfit. Way to go, nintendo.

[Kenryoku_Maxis]

All joking aside, I appriciate that Samus isn't done-up with her lady parts hanging out so excessivly, as that might seem out of charecter, but she's still lookin' good in a skin tight outfit. Way to go, nintendo.

I think its fair to say that Nintendo is doing everything 99.8% right with this game. Heh.

[Mirai Gen]

Keep in mind that it's Zero Suit Samus. It's referencing Zero Mission, when she had the gun and such.

It wouldn't make any sense to change the Zero Suit outfit on her just to make fun bits more accessable and obvious.

Though I'm surprised they haven't made Super Metroid's post-suit a-splode in the game, really. Like Samus taking off her helmet for a victory pose, or something.

[[ray.z]]

The only problem I have with Zero Suit Samus is that she's using a whip.

A whip for christ's sake!

How does that work? Like, is she going to be able to steal items off other people with it? Wrap them up? Make whipped cream?!

They already tried the whip with Shiek in Melee, and I don't believe that their effort was to any great success. But that was just one attack ...

Still, I guess she could use that to grab people in midair, throw them down and so on, so I'm guessing that she should be very acrobatic. And at least it's also a gun, and that they've said

Originally by Nintendo
Also, her gun transforms and can be used as a whip. Of the two, one might consider the whip to be her main weapon.
Actually, saying one might consider the whip to be her main weapon is kinda suggestive that it is.

Well it's something different from a traditional weapon, and it'll be interesting to see how they use it in the game.

(I'm aware whipped cream isn't literally whipped).

[Kenryoku_Maxis]

Keep in mind that it's Zero Suit Samus. It's referencing Zero Mission, when she had the gun and such.

It wouldn't make any sense to change the Zero Suit outfit on her just to make fun bits more accessable and obvious.

Though I'm surprised they haven't made Super Metroid's post-suit a-splode in the game, really. Like Samus taking off her helmet for a victory pose, or something.

I wasn't very happy with Samus in Smash Bros. From the sounds they had her make to the clunky feel of how she moved and fought. Obviously some people like her in the game and more power to ya.

However, now they're just totally going crazy on the opposite spectrum and revealing her totally, in spandex, with I can only assume amazing agility and speed as the sacrifice of her health.

....I'm really hoping they won't take out Regular suited Samus. Because THAT'S the Samus I know and love. And as long as they make her more like Metroid II or Super Metroid Samus, I'll play her till doomsday!

[IHateMakingNames]

....I'm really hoping they won't take out Regular suited Samus. Because THAT'S the Samus I know and love. And as long as they make her more like Metroid II or Super Metroid Samus, I'll play her till doomsday!

And don't worry—you'll still be able to play as standard Samus, too.

So yes, regular suited Samus will still be there.

[Kenryoku_Maxis]

So yes, regular suited Samus will still be there.

yay! I didn't think they'd be able to get away with taking out suited Samus. But you never know.

[Mirai Gen]

yay! I didn't think they'd be able to get away with taking out suited Samus. But you never know.
It was mentioned before that "Under certain conditions" she "loses her suit".

In fact I think it caused more confusion and irritation when that was announced than anything else.

[[ray.z]]

Yeah I think many (including myself) would prefer if they keep her as a seperate playable character (much like Link/Young Link).

Also, what would these certain conditions be? Cause by the sounds of those words, it seems to be very different to the Zelda/Sheik transformation move. It could be something like reaching a certain level of damage (like 250%), and then your suit falls apart (like in the video), transforming you into Zero Suit Samus. But then that would seriously compromise the character's playability. Like, she would change, then BAM! She's outa there!

Actually, they could have her in the game like the transformation move for Zelda/Sheik - but then the introduction of Zero Suit Samus probably wouldn't count then as a new character

[Burkion]

I want Sora from KH2.

That's all. GIVE ME SORA DAMNIT!

[mammothtank]

I'm surprised they have yet to include characters like Megaman, Sonic, and Bomberman in SSB. They should've been in Melee.

[greed]

The third parties I'm really holding out for are:

Black Mage: FF1
Kefka: FF6 (They need more irredeemable nihilistic evil demigods)
Simon Belmont
Streetfighter Ryu (Hadoken!)

The only first parties I want that are as yet unconfirmed are:
Ganon(Need more truly evil, immortal god-things)
Geno
Olimar
Ridley

Oh and maybe ZSS will be an underpowered form she takes after using the superattack, until next time she dies. To compensate her super is GODLY.

Also the food triggering a Metal Slugesque fat form if overconsumed, would truly rock. Fat Mewtwo or Ness!

"Ach,don't make me run! I'm full of chocolate!"-Fat Ness

[Joshua]

The only first parties I want that are as yet unconfirmed are:
Ganon(Need more truly evil, immortal god-things)
Geno
Olimar
Ridley

Geno's a third party character.

I'm really looking forward to this. It's gonna rock. I hope it's not to hard to chance between regular Samus and Zero Suit Samus.

And I personally really want to see Wind Waker Link replace the normal Young Link, with an entirely new moveset. I don't believe that rumor one bit, but I still can see this prediction happening. Up+B could be the Deku Leaf. Whoo.

[Kenryoku_Maxis]

']Yeah I think many (including myself) would prefer if they keep her as a seperate playable character (much like Link/Young Link).

Also, what would these certain conditions be? Cause by the sounds of those words, it seems to be very different to the Zelda/Sheik transformation move. It could be something like reaching a certain level of damage (like 250%), and then your suit falls apart (like in the video), transforming you into Zero Suit Samus. But then that would seriously compromise the character's playability. Like, she would change, then BAM! She's outa there!

Actually, they could have her in the game like the transformation move for Zelda/Sheik - but then the introduction of Zero Suit Samus probably wouldn't count then as a new character

Well, in their little intro at E3, they have her suit falling off due to her using this super huge beam attack. Perhaps that's what will happen, because her suit overloads.

Also, she might lose her suit by having it damaged too much. However I find that to be cheap to have a quick and agile character be able to come out of a suit after taking too much damage. That would be like Marth suddenly dropping to 50% after taking over 151% of DMG.

[[ray.z]]

Well I didn't say she would have reduced damage after the transformation ... but if that was to occur, that would be shite. But if they did do that, maybe they'd make it so the suit doesn't come back after you die - once you get out of the suit, you'll be like that till the end of the game.

Originally written by SSB:B Site
And don't worry—you'll still be able to play as standard Samus, too. This is what's really tripping me out - cause if it is an in-game change, when will it be?

Originally written by Wikipedia
The official website states that "Samus will 'remove' her Power Suit" under certain conditions (clicky (http://www.smashbros.com/en/characters/chara3/index.html)). The fact that "remove" is in quotation marks suggests that the comment may have been made figuratively. Well maybe by the end of all this we'll discover that we as players don't remove the suit - it's already done and she'll be a separate character.

Originally posted by Joshua
And I personally really want to see Wind Waker Link replace the normal Young Link, with an entirely new moveset. I don't believe that rumor one bit, but I still can see this prediction happening. Up+B could be the Deku Leaf. Whoo. Well I don't want him to be cell shaded. It wouldn't work for another LoZ character to be cell shaded with TP Link right next to it. Like I know other character (like Kirby and Pikachu) will have the similar style to a cell shaded Young Link, it just wouldn't be consistent to have different styles for LoZ charcters. Actually, it'd be pretty darn stupid (and unlikely) to have different styles for characters of the same series.

But to remove Young Link form being a "Link Clone" would be great, cause then I'd just rather they remove him from the game entirely.

[Kroze Gamegod]

Geno's a third party character.


How do you figure?
The game and characters in Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars are owned by Nintendo, Squaresoft (Now named the more Squishy and Fuzzy sounding Squenix) Just did the devloping...
Kinda like how Disney (Sadly) owns Sora, and Riku...

[ElfLad]

I would probably prefer Young Link to be from Majora's Mask. Maybe with some sweet mask transformations.

[Mirai Gen]

I would probably prefer Young Link to be from Majora's Mask. Maybe with some sweet mask transformations.
Holy shit, that would rock. It'd be like Sheik, except his down B would give him a random mask of like four. He'd be like Zappa from Guilty Gear.

That's fucking brilliant.

[Premonitions]

I believe that all the Main Nintendo game should have at least three of their characters in it. so' here's my list based on this logic

Mario: whilst I could go with Having Mario,Peach,Luigi,and Bowser, AND Yoshi(I don't care what people say, Yoshi's from mario). doctor mario was just pushing it. I'd rather have toad as the other Mario character. Since wario is already in.

Metroid: samus/Zero Suit samus
2:ridely
I've worked out ridely's control system
B: fire like bowser's or fire flower
^b: whatever flight mechanism they're using for metaknight
vB:tail attack
>B:fireball

3: Space pirate, or Kraid, I prefer generic space pirate, especially the ones from prime.
Link: take out young link and you're perfect. the idea of young link having WW moves intrigues me though. If they use those I could see him back in.

Donkey Kong: I have newfound respect for donkey kong after playing donkey Kong Jungle beat. donkey Kong should have
1: Donkey Kong:don't change a thing, make his super move his shockwave chest beating from DKJB
2: Diddy Kong: agile, quick, and small, as well as a good melee fighter. seems perfect
3: Captain/King K.rool: Large, slow, with a cannon, seems simple enough.
Kirby: just add Dedede and you're set.
Fox: MAybe Slippy toad or crystal from Adventures, it's right there for her
B: Fire blast
>B:Ice blast
vB: earthquake attack
^B:rocket move
rediculously easy. I'd prefer it if fox and falco changed up a bit. Maybe make falco more arial.

I heard from someone on these forums that individual sheild animations should be in. I agree. Link holding up his sheild. Mario rasing his golden cape. donkey kong, gaurdin with his fists, bowser retreating into hsi shell,fox raisng hsi defelctor. Hell, you could come uo with new moves for fox,falco,mario,and zelda,ness, kirby,and Peach if you Let each character's sheild have the affects of their sheidl'ing moves in the game. So when kirby sheilds, he does the stone move, when ness sheilds he does the absorb move, when peach sheilds she pulls out toad, when fox and falco sheild the raise their deflctor beam, samus rolls into morph ball, possibly becomes electric, like a stationary screw attack. Link's sheild would deflect stuff in random directions.and so on an dso on.

[Shizor]

Geno and Mallow. Please.

[Mirai Gen]

Geno and Mallow. Please.
Probably, if they do it, it'd be just Geno.

Geno's a complete fan favorite, and Mallow is just kinda 'there'. Mario, Bowser, and Peach already are in the game. Besides, Geno'd probably be busting out tons of ranged magic attacks, and thats what Mallow's forte' is.

That, and he'd be a combination of Pikachu and Zelda.

[[ray.z]]

Originally posted by Premonitions
I heard from someone on these forums that individual sheild animations should be in. I agree. Link holding up his sheild. Mario rasing his golden cape. donkey kong, gaurdin with his fists, bowser retreating into hsi shell,fox raisng hsi defelctor. Hell, you could come uo with new moves for fox,falco,mario,and zelda,ness, kirby,and Peach if you Let each character's sheild have the affects of their sheidl'ing moves in the game. So when kirby sheilds, he does the stone move, when ness sheilds he does the absorb move, when peach sheilds she pulls out toad, when fox and falco sheild the raise their deflctor beam, samus rolls into morph ball, possibly becomes electric, like a stationary screw attack. Link's sheild would deflect stuff in random directions.and so on an dso on. While this idea is intruiging, it doesn't seem plausable. Cause unless this mean that these specified sheilds will be the same as normal shields and are only for show, then there are no pro's or con's for this idea.

Wait. There is -
The size of the shield remaining - you won't be able to tell when your sheild is gonna break.
The amount of cover the shield has - for example, Link's shield will only cover were it is placed.
The speed of going in and out of defense positions - like how long would it take for bowser to go in/out of his shell?In contrast, if these shields were to be like the moves they are based upon, then what about Fox/Falco's deflector shield, and Ness's absorber shield? They are used for shielding from non-physical attacks. Also, the amount space the sheild can defend, cause really, how big can Toad get? (Plus, would they include him in Peach's move if he [might] be in the game?)

Like c'mon. The shield is an essential part of the game - the ability to dodge, duck, dip, dive and ... dodge [and roll] is an integral part of exceeding in the game.

So I don't think it'll work.

Also Premonitions (or anyone else for that matter), what about new characters from games which contain Captain Falcon, Ness and the Ice Climbers?

And Dr Mario is a genuine character addition!

Now is there an updated list of the most popular characters from the petition on the SSBB site, cause there should be one, right?

OFF TOPIC: I'm holding a Smash tournament on July 1st - I can't wait!

[greed]

']
Now is there an updated list of the most popular characters from the petition on the SSBB site, cause there should be one, right?

Yeah sorry that was a mis-translation somewhere along the line, the way the site worked was he put up the top 20 first then the next 20 later and so on, however I believe it has stopped now.

The ones I've included are the top 20, and it's not just characters on that list, it also includes levels and items.
The reason I say this is that the Cuckoo chicken from Zelda was around 30 something on the list, and while you couldn't make a character out of it it could work as a stage device (like Tingle or the revolving cannon barrel from Melee) or an item. Hit it too many times and it unleashes poultrigeddon on the field causing incredible destruction.

Also these aren't the most popular suggestions, these are the suggestions Sakurai liked the most. Cause if it was the most popular suggestions, Cloud/Sephiroth, Dante, Sora or a Dragon Quest character would be on there.

[Joshua]

How do you figure?
The game and characters in Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars are owned by Nintendo, Squaresoft (Now named the more Squishy and Fuzzy sounding Squenix) Just did the devloping...
Kinda like how Disney (Sadly) owns Sora, and Riku...

No, Squaresoft owns the copyrights for the game and all the characters created in it, such as Geno, Mallow, Smithy, Booster, Mack, Belome...

It's why Nintendo has never rereleased it or gave it an official sequel. It's Square's game for some reason.

So all characters from that game are third party, save characters taken from prior games such as Mario, Peach, Bowser, Toads, Goombas, etc...

There's proof, too. Nintendo replyed to a "release SMRPG on the Game Boy Adventure" petition by saying they couldn't do so because they'd have to go through Squaresoft, and when Geno cameoed in Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga, Nintendo stated that he was trademarked by Squaresoft in the end credits.



..................
As for Wind Waker Link not fitting in the art style, I have four words for you:

Mr. Game & Watch

Plus characters such as Mario and Kirby have art styles contradicting normal Link and Captain Falcon.

But at any rate, Mr. Game & Watch prooves that an art style won't keep a character out of the game.

And the Wind Waker-style Link is popular amoungst Nintendo, with the number of games they're making with him. I say he has a high chance.

[Kenryoku_Maxis]

All the characters in Smash Bros are of a different art style. Pikachu would never fit in a Zelda game. Even LESS in a game like Twilight Princess. Yet they're together in the same game.

Wind Waker Link, and Wind Waker Ganon for that matter, both would fit just fine.

[[ray.z]]

The only way Windwaker Characters would be fine in the game, is if they specifically distinguish them from the TP characters ie. their names would be WW Link and WW Ganon.

Yes, all the characters are of different styles, but that's between diffeent games. Within the same game it's the same, cause you don't see Mario and Luigi having completely different clothes.

But I still don't like them, probably cause I like the new TP style more. How could you not like it?

[Kenryoku_Maxis]

']But I still don't like them, probably cause I like the new TP style more. How could you not like it?

I like the Twilight style. But that doesn't mean I suddenly dislike every other style of Zelda now...

And despite what anyone says about how it LOOKS, playing Wind Waker Ganon is 1 million times more awesome than any previous Ganon. Not only can he throw lightning and teleport, but he has two fricken owning swords and wears a cool costume.

Yes, Ganon is one of those few I'd say owns just because of what he has for a weapon and what he wears. However, he's probably still the best Ganon 'character' wise as well.

In just every way I think he should be in this game. Even just to have a new Ganon. Ganondorf was cool, but now let's let a new Ganon have a try.

[Mac]

Seeing how Kojima is allowing Nintendo to use Snake, it is safe to assume that Square and Nintendo buried the hatchet. Maybe perhaps We will see Geno.


But, I also wish to play as WW Ganon. I mean OoT Ganondorf was cool, but he was more of a Cpt Falcon Clone then anyone else. I want Ganon to have his own skill sets.

[Chipper173]

A Ganon with his own moveset would make my heart sing. WW Ganon would positively make my heart climb the tallest mountain and proclaim its love for Nintendo.

I love Ganon no matter what his moves are. One reason: Used him to beat an ex-girlfriend in front of all her friends in a tournament.

[greed]

I wouldn't mind having the WW Ganondorf representing Ganondorf, but I really want the pig Ganon from the 2d games.

[[ray.z]]

Well yeah I mean it would be mad to have the WW Ganon - but could they at least keep it in the same TP style Link is in? Cause that is all I really wanted - I don't care so much if the character's are different, just keep the same style between characters of the same series.

And for Pig Ganon - what about inserting him into the game through the super smash item?

[greed]

What like the reverse of Zero Suit samus?

Ganondorf gets a weak super attack but turns into Ganon after it, and Ganon is brokenly strong?

And I see what you mean, Wind Waker style attacks but TP form, well it's probably going to be TP Ganondorf anyway, hopeful he's cool.

Of course if Ganondorf isn't in TP, then WW Ganondorf will be more likely.

[Kroze Gamegod]

I was up thinking late last night about who really ever use Luigi...
Then my mind came started wandering to how Samus will now work and thoughts of Zelda in Melee...
Thats when it dawned on me....
In order to not suck, Luigi needs to transform into...
Wait for it...
Wait for it....

John Leguizamo!!!
Complete with a walking Bob-bomb with the Reebok Shoe!
Genius!
Two big questions then ran through my mind...
1. Would he be considered a first or third party character?
2. Why the hell would a bob-bomb wear a Brand Name shoe since its obiviously the "Punk" of the Mario baddies...

At this point I realized that I had no clue where my sanity was since I was trying to consider the travisty known as a movie proper Mario Canon and fell asleep.

[Lockeownzj00]

Holy shit, that would rock. It'd be like Sheik, except his down B would give him a random mask of like four. He'd be like Zappa from Guilty Gear.

That's fucking brilliant.

Best idea I've heard so far that they probably won't implement. It's always like this. God fucking dammit.

How cool would it fucking be? It would make him a very difficult character, but then, it would be like any of the unique melee characters which have their quirks.

Obviously each transformation wouldn't be insanely powerful, but they'd have their unique moves. It would be harder to use, though--maybe when you put on the mask it gives you like, 20 seconds to be whatever transformation you've gotten?

[MuMu]

He should be a boss, and when you beat him, he uses the Delta something mask(The one that transforms you into a Silver Link) and refill the health bar(Yours too of course).

[greed]

He should be a boss, and when you beat him, he uses the Delta something mask(The one that transforms you into a Silver Link) and refill the health bar(Yours too of course).

Fierce Deity Mask and Oni Link.
The transforms between the three main forms should be random, but equal percentage of chance.
There should also be secret low percentage transformations like Oni Link, in like 2% of the transformations, but truly being truly UBER, also the transform is unlocked only after beating the Oni Link boss at the end of Young Link's adventure mode.
A dud form like .5% of the time, like the rabbit from ALttP,
and other random small percentage ones would be the stone mask (making Link invisible) and the giant's mask (making him huge), all lasting until he either hits the transform button again or is killed. Except Fierce Deity which gives him another move in place of the transform and only goes away with KO. Also getting each of these the first time would result in getting a trophy of the mask.

I like it, it would be tough to master because of the randomness and extremely different styles of the normal kid Link and the common goron, zora and deku transformations, but think how hard it would be to defend against something like that in the hands of someone who's mastered each form.

[Mirai Gen]

Best idea I've heard so far that they probably won't implement. It's always like this. God fucking dammit.
What's great is how come I came up with it off of "Some sweet mask transformations."

It's funny how my mind works sometimes.

I wish this was in the suggestion petition. Damn me and my non-japanese speaking.

[Lockeownzj00]

I could theoretically do it for you, it's just that they're probably being deluged with requests.

Still...書いてみたがってるんだろうか？

[ElfLad]

Best idea I've heard so far that they probably won't implement. It's always like this. God fucking dammit.

How cool would it fucking be? It would make him a very difficult character, but then, it would be like any of the unique melee characters which have their quirks.

Obviously each transformation wouldn't be insanely powerful, but they'd have their unique moves. It would be harder to use, though--maybe when you put on the mask it gives you like, 20 seconds to be whatever transformation you've gotten?

I originally thought about having Deku Link, Goron Link, and Zora Link as seperate characters. They're all distinct enough to have their own characters and randomized mask transformations don't appeal to me, especially if you're looking for Zora Link and getting Goron Link. Having each be a seperate mask would take up all of Y. Link's special moves. But having three seperate characters would add a few new faces that aren't clones. But Fierce Deity should be saved for Y. Link's Brawl Move IMO.

[Lockeownzj00]

That's too implausible though. I honestly don't think they'll have 6 or 7 characters from one game, especially if 5 of them are basically forms of Link.

That's the whole point about the randomization, though--Zora Link may have a very nice attack, but you can't be "cheap" about it. I think the brilliant part of a randomized special like that is that it forces you to be diligent. If you get Deku, you have to know immediately how you're going to change the course of the battle.

I wonder what they're going to do about moves, though. If they take out any of the current B or A moves, I think it'll be a dire mistake. They're far too core to the gameplay. I can only see new moves being added with new buttons/button combos.

[ElfLad]

Really, any new Zelda material in SSB is likely coming from Twilight Princess.

Which is too bad, because Link's forms and Skull Kid/Majora are all viable characters. And the characters could be named Darmani, Mikau, etc. and they'd seem like non-Link characters.

And at this point, I'm not talking about what's plausible, I'm talking about the wants of the deepest part of my soul.

[Lockeownzj00]

Let's just agree to create a separate Smash Bros. game starring only Zelda characters. >_o

[Mirai Gen]

Elflad - If you want an idea of what Locke and I mean, play Guilty Gear's Zappa.

Whenever he does decent amounts of damage, or takes some, he gets orbs that circle around him. The more build up, the higher your chances are of summoning Big Guy (fan name), who does insanely powerful damage. Before then, though, you can summon one of the following :Spirit Dog, Bloody Sword, and Three Ghosts.

Take out the orbs and the damage taken/given, and you'd have what we mean. Zora mask would make him range-based, speed mask would make him more like Shiek, and probably a few others.

Who knows? Maybe even if you get that symbol - You know, the one that gives Link his apeshit slash-attacks, and Mario's badass fireball - you'd become Great Diety, and start shooting laser beams at everyone.

You'd probably think, "yeah, but he could just keep on pulling out more masks until you got the one you wanted!" Yeah, you're right. If they give him the kind of long-ass transform time that Zelda/Shiek has, they could, and you would get your ass kicked. Besides, they'd probably be on timers, or a certain % of health taken, or something, just like Zappa.

[Kenryoku_Maxis]

To make Adventure mode more fun to play, they should put many more bosses. I mean, last time we had Giga Bowser, but how about more this time. What if now when you got to th end of Adventure mode, you hada chance to fight either Giga Boswer, Ocarina of Time Ganon, Ridley, a fricken Star Wolf ship (am I the only one who thinks that would be awesome) or more probably floating Andross head, some super powerful Fire Emblem ending boss (from one of the 8 games, probably I or IV), some powerful Pokemon and maybe some random guys you never find with a hero counterpart in the game. Someone from Pikmin or Animal Crossing or something like that won't work..but manybe there's some Nintendo game that doesn't have their hero in the game as a fighter, but they have a big end boss that can be featured as one of the bosses to end Adventure mode.

And then there's always third party bosses to consider. What if they got a square character in the game. Then suddenly, WOW, we have Ruby Weapon as a boss. Or since they got Snake, why not have a Castlevania or Suikoden Boss show up for fun? Oh.....this game would be the best game ever made, no question, if suddenly Luca Blight or Luc appeared as an end game boss.

[Mac]

To make Adventure mode more fun to play, they should put many more bosses. I mean, last time we had Giga Bowser, but how about more this time. What if now when you got to th end of Adventure mode, you hada chance to fight either Giga Boswer, Ocarina of Time Ganon, Ridley, a fricken Star Wolf ship (am I the only one who thinks that would be awesome) or more probably floating Andross head, some super powerful Fire Emblem ending boss (from one of the 8 games, probably I or IV), some powerful Pokemon and maybe some random guys you never find with a hero counterpart in the game. Someone from Pikmin or Animal Crossing or something like that won't work..but manybe there's some Nintendo game that doesn't have their hero in the game as a fighter, but they have a big end boss that can be featured as one of the bosses to end Adventure mode.

And then there's always third party bosses to consider. What if they got a square character in the game. Then suddenly, WOW, we have Ruby Weapon as a boss. Or since they got Snake, why not have a Castlevania or Suikoden Boss show up for fun? Oh.....this game would be the best game ever made, no question, if suddenly Luca Blight or Luc appeared as an end game boss.

Well, if what i gather from your post, each character would ahve to have their own unique Boss battle. Thats fine and Dandy for Metroid, Mario and Zelda. But what about things like Cpt Falcon. Its a racing game. Or Ice Climbers.(should they be in the game god forbid)

[greed]

Deathborn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GX_Pilots#Deathborn) and the Condor of course.:D

And they should have Metal Gear Rex/Ray if they have individual bosses. If they have unattatched bosses the one from Konami should be one of those exposed core ships from Gradius.

They wouldn't have Suikoden because no Nintendo games.

And if they're going to have Castlevania anything they should have Simon damnit.

[Mirai Gen]

Simon, Leon, Trevor, fuck, they could even put in Sophia Belmont (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castlevania_Legends) and we'd be happy. Just put in a Belmont, god damn it.

The idea came up for Alucard to be in it. I think that this would be okay, if it wouldn't seem like a hybrid between the theoretical Belmont and Marth/Roy.

[Kenryoku_Maxis]

Well, if what i gather from your post, each character would ahve to have their own unique Boss battle. Thats fine and Dandy for Metroid, Mario and Zelda. But what about things like Cpt Falcon. Its a racing game. Or Ice Climbers.(should they be in the game god forbid)

Not every characters respective boss. Just the major ones. Probably only half the amount of ideas I came up with due to time and the sheer amount of models needed for a character you can't play as.

[Mac]

What they need for Snakes Level is Arsenal Gear. Its hazard would be that every once in a while, a Metal gear Ray will jump onto the level fire off some Missiles and then flee. Somehting similar to the Arwing.

[Kenryoku_Maxis]

Or some Metal Gear Rex as an end boss.

And I just realized something. They're putting in Snake, but many times they announce one character from a game and then put in another character from that game as a secret unlockable character.

...do I smell Raiden.

[Mac]

Or some Metal Gear Rex as an end boss.

And I just realized something. They're putting in Snake, but many times they announce one character from a game and then put in another character from that game as a secret unlockable character.

...do I smell Raiden.

I honestly hope it will be Grey Fox. Or maybe perhaps Liquid.

[greed]

Volgin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volgin#Yevgeny_Borisovitch_Volgin), he could work as a cross between Pikachu and Ganondorf from the last game.

Because they're probably going to have alternate costumes this time instead of/in addition to colour changes and The Boss, BB,Raiden, Naked Snake and Liquid, all would work as alternate costumes of Solid Snake.

[Mirai Gen]

I would see Raiden being in there too. Snake probably would pop up and be his (official) explosives-happy self, while Raiden would be able to use the HF Blade instead of Solid Snake's CQC.

[Mac]

Atually, the costumes, might be the different camo's from MGS3

[Omgitshim]

I thought of this idea as soon as the game was announced: Diskun. He'd be a hidden character that isn't announced to be in the game at release, and doesn't count as a character (for if there's any "unlock all characters" unlockables), and when you unlock him he would fill an empty space like Sonic and Tales did in Melee.

[[ray.z]]

What the hell! Sonic and Talis weren't in Melee - It was all just a hoax (http://ssbm.detstar.com/images/sonictails.cfm).

And how would Diskun work? He's just a logo, so he never did anything?

NOTE: I doubt you thought of this - the idea of Diskun in SSBB is posted in a number of forums.

[Omgitshim]

']What the hell! Sonic and Talis weren't in Melee - It was all just a hoax (http://ssbm.detstar.com/images/sonictails.cfm).

I knew SSBM doesn't have Sonic and Tails. Infact I did the thing you need to do to unlock them before I heard of them in the first place.
']And how would Diskun work? He's just a logo, so he never did anything?
Yes, Diskun is just a logo, but in the trophy they describe him as at least resembling some sort of creature. And no, he would not work, but like I said, he wouldn't actually be a character. Maybe they wouldn't want to go through the trouble to program attacks for an easter egg, skin another character or something, I don't care.
']NOTE: I doubt you thought of this - the idea of Diskun in SSBB is posted in a number of forums.
Huh, I honestly didn't know that. I'm the first person I heard this from.

[Grandmaster_Skweeb]

Sonic and tails in brawl? Worst. idea. ever. Why? well think about it, what else can they do other than roll around? Roll faster? HAW. Want to experience that? Play a bunch of jigglypuffs doing their super roll and then you'll realize how horrible sonic and tails would be. Sonic, much like Diskun, is a mascot/logo. A character way past his time who needs to retire for good.

[[ray.z]]

Soni and Tails wouldn't be a bad idea (actually I'd prefer Knuckles). Sure, all they can do is run fast and roll, but you could incorporate other stuff into it as well I'm sure of it.

And they aren't the only character to not have enough set moves - Ness' PK Flash was never I move of his*. Luigi's Green Missile as well. And let's not forget Capt. Falcon, who prior to SSB only appeared in racing games* - how do you get moves from that?

So I can't think of many moves for the Sega characters at the moment, but obviously there's rolling, a move could be done with the rings (Like the Mario Bros. and coins), and .... well I can't think of much more.

But I'm sure it's possible.

*=I think

[MuMu]

If you wanna Add someone from sonic, Add Knucles or Shadow. They wouldrock(Especially Shadow, if he could use those powers from Sonic Battle[GBA]).

[Mac]

I think that Sonic would be cool

Super Smash: Super Sonic Attack. Runs around ayt high speed hitting singular Opponent

^B Sonic Spin: Does an Upward Spin Attack.

vB Rush Attack: Rushes the opponent, knocking them backwards.

B: Ring Toss: Throws a ring


meh its just an Idea

[MetalPsycho]

Sonic's breakdance fighting could easily be worked into the game.

Tails? That'd be a little harder. I'm thinking karate moves, myself.

[Joshua]

If Sonic is in, Shadow should totally be a recolor of him, just like Peach/Daisy and Captain Falcon/Blood Falcon in SSBM.

[[ray.z]]

Y'know a lot of people have mentioned recolours of characters.

Would'nt it be mad if instead of just changing the costume, attributes of the character are changed as well.

[Kikuichimonji]

']Y'know a lot of people have mentioned recolours of characters.

Would'nt it be mad if instead of just changing the costume, attributes of the character are changed as well.I wouldn't like it. Partially because it makes no sense in many situations, and partially because simple things (such as increased attack and taking more damage) just aren't interesting. I want the focus to be on the fight, not picking the right character + costume combo.

I'm gonna be honest about me buying Brawl: if it's online multiplayer and they don't fucking blow it to hell, my purchase is 100% secured.

[[ray.z]]

Well you see .....

I don't think online multiplayer will be that good.

No it ain't for personal reasons, but I read somewhere (and I forgots where), that if there is online multiplayer, then at most it'll be one-on-one. I think it's probably due to the amount of lag it may have.

I know - it sucks.

It's a shame for all those who wanna just duke it out with their mates, but it'll be pretty good for tournaments and such.

Even though, it is a social game. I couldn't really see I'd verse someone else wothout being able to gloat and insult them.

[Mr. Viewtiful]

On a semi-related note, is the Wii scheduled to have a headset for online muliplayer? After all, even if there was online multiplayer, it wouldn't be nearly as good without a means to communicate with your opponents in-game...

[Joshua]

You could just get their Instant Messaging address and communicate/gloat over that.

I hope online will work with 4 characters, but I'll be content with 1-on-1.

[VA_Ninja]

I highly doubt it'll just be one-on-one. The 'lag' excuse sounds like a bunch of crap; consider some of the massive deathmatches that games like Battlefield offer.

[Mirai Gen]

The pallete swap is really so that way a Shiek/Sheik/Sheik/Sheik game - which is extremely common - isn't confusing.

To try and change it so that it changed attributes for the character would be inane.

And as for online? Well, hell, Smash online already sounds fun, but I'm worried. I'm going to have people kicking the living shit out of me on a regular basis in Smash Bros.

That's simply not something I'm used to.

[Ogianres]

Well, if that many people are that good online, then you'll just get better. Right? Well, I won't worry about it because while I'm getting my ass kicked online, I'll be having fun while it's happening :D.

[Goonka]

Marina Liteyears.

SHAK SHAKE SHAKE!


'Nuff said

[Kenryoku_Maxis]

Marina Liteyears.

SHAK SHAKE SHAKE!


'Nuff said

Yes, I agree. And I'm surprised I didn't think of it myself. And you know...Nintendo should so do that.

[Premonitions]

Sonic and tails in brawl? Worst. idea. ever. Why? well think about it, what else can they do other than roll around? Roll faster? HAW.
Going by just what you've seen in normal sonic games, sure. But, like Mario, Sonic is Sega's main ho, so he's been in plenty of games he has no business being in, just like mario. And two of these are Sonic:the fighters, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_the_Fighters) and Sonic Battle, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_Battle)
SONIC FIGHTING GAMES. yes, it's true
I think they should have Sonic, Knuckles and Eggman in a mech. In keeping with my at least three characters from every major game idea. Shadow is cool and all, but I'm getting freaking tired of him. My annoyance aside, Shadow could only play as a Sonic clone, and I am desperately wishing to not see any clones in this game.

[[ray.z]]

Screw Shadow being a clone - make him an alternate colouring for Sonic. Or even better, put him in one of those event matches (like Link vs. Shadow Link).

[greed]

If we're having alternate costumes that detailed, they need to give Mario his Hammer Suit, Samus the Light Suit, Mewtwo his cybernetics(I remember him having them in his first appearances in the anime, and them being really cool, but it's been years since I've seen the anime), Peach her soccer outfit.

Alternate character skins should have DK as Dk Jr and Funky and Snake as Liquid (with VA hopefully) and Naked Snake.

[[ray.z]]

I remember someone saying the way to get Wario in Melee. It was to change the costume to purple and yellow.

So yes. They should do all that. It'd be mad. Specially the cybernetic Mewtwo.

But what about those characters who don't really have an alternate costume? Make up one, or just change the colour?

And I hope you can choose a traditional Wario costume as well - I hate the Warioware one.

... and Naked Snake .......

Naked Snake? :brow:

[Mirai Gen]

Naked Snake was the codename for Snake in MGS3. It's actually Big Boss' codename, but since he wasn't 'technically' Big Boss yet when the game starts, they called him Naked Snake instead. I think it's just Kojima trying to be 'omg plot twists!!!!'

So, yeah. If Solid Snake is in it, what's the point in having Naked Snake in?

[greed]

As an alternate costume, instead of just having 4 recolours of Snake in a sneaking suit you get Solid, Liquid, Naked Snake(oh and spoilers kindaNaked Snake is actually Big Boss back in the 60s) and Old Snake. It would rule.

Most chars could have them, I mean some would just have to have recolours(Ice Climbers spring to mind) but them having very different alternate skins would be awesome.

They already laid the groundwork in the last game with the pokemon having different clothing instead of recolours and Peach having a Daisy alternate and Cap Falcon having a Blood Falcon alternate.

[Dwarfburg citizen]

What about the Golden Sun characters?

Im sure that these guys are gonna be in it.

I sure as hell want to use Isaac and Felix in brawl and beat the crap out of people with psynergy!

[Regulus Tera]

Make their Super Smash move either the Catastrophe or the Eclipse Summon, and you have a winnar!

Jugdment is also a good one. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=W_dGoIFV5VI&search=golden%20sun%20summon)

[Kenryoku_Maxis]

You know, I just realized something going back and playing Melee. Nintendo has one of the toughest challenges in making a game in history. When melee came out, it was such a leap from the original Smash Bros that even 5 years later, people are still playing it and finding new things about it. And the graphics and gameplay, for the most part, still hold up eventhough it came out virtually with the system.

But its going to be exceptionally hard for Nintendo to do thisagain...on the Wii. Its one thing to add a few new characters, buff up the graphics about 50x and improve on a game that was deemed a 'fun idea' by the original developers (Smash Bros 1 wasn't intended to be as big as it became). But now they have to take one of the biggest gamesin the last 5 years...and do what they did last time...again.

Snake is a good start, but just adding some new characters and bumping up the graphics a bit I don't feel are going to cut it. This isn't Pokemon and this game HAS to be one of those which lasts for another 5 years.

I'm fearful the game will come out and mearly just have some bumped up graphics, a few new characters and feel the same.

[Mirai Gen]

Well, compare things we've seen in the trailer, to things in Melee, to things in SSB.
Original SSB: Small cast of characters, item fun, lots of arenas, a couple challenges, and a sped-up gameplay. Stationary dodges, airdodge, and C-stick fun.
Melee: More items, more characters, more arenas, and lots of new challenges
Brawl Trailer: Overdrive moves, Nintendogs summon, several additional characters, online petition for other characters, and, well, the game isn't even close to being finished yet.

I don't think so, Ken. The

[greed]

Yeah it does look they haven't just rested on their laurels this time, plus there is the transformations(only ZS Samus announced but I'm betting there will be more).

[Buddha Fett]

Speaking of the transformations, why couldn't they use that for a link char. in place of the mask moves idea? That would rock pretty hard.

[Mirai Gen]

Christ, my Adelphia is fucking up. That "The" came out of nowhere

The Majoras Mask idea would fucking own, but they'd probably never use it, considering some college hippie in California was the guy who came up with it, and some revolutionary currently in Japan was one of the few who liked the idea.

[[ray.z]]

Also, no one really uses the advantage of having two characters due to a transformation ie Zelda/Sheik. Most people just use one of them, in my experience it's Sheik that people prefer.

In addition, the game came out on the N64, which was about 10 years ago. They are more likely to opt for something more recent.

But hey, with the Wii's Connect-24 function, it would be cool if they made it as an extra addon that you could download - they could use it to promote Majora's Mask on the Virtual Console.

[Mac]

']Also, no one really uses the advantage of having two characters due to a transformation ie Zelda/Sheik. Most people just use one of them, in my experience it's Sheik that people prefer.

In addition, the game came out on the N64, which was about 10 years ago. They are more likely to opt for something more recent.

But hey, with the Wii's Connect-24 function, it would be cool if they made it as an extra addon that you could download - they could use it to promote Majora's Mask on the Virtual Console.


I actually used both. When I would be up against my brother, i would turn to Sheik, Run away turn to Zelda and use Din Fire and smack my opponent around. Turn to Sheik and run away and repeat.

[greed]

Agreeing with Big Mac, I also used both Zelda and Shiek, Shiek was good as a fast overwhelming fighter and Zelda was a better smasher, weaken them with Shiek, then deliver the deathblows with Zelda.

you know what would be cool a third transformation or maybe replacing Shiek with an adult version of (WW SPOILERS) Tetra, c'mon tall sexy cutlass wielding tanned, green haired pirate queen, she could get backstab bonuses and use explosives.

[Mirai Gen]

I think that giving Zelda any more transformations would cause her to end up like my idea for Majora's Mask Link, with the random Mask pulling.

[greed]

Well they could replace Shiek with the newer form, or have someway of limiting whcih forms are to be used on the character select screen, like to some degree customisible characters.

[Joshua]

With Tetra... I think she has a high chance of making it in with all her awesome pirate-style moves if they add in Wind Waker-style Link. I can totally see a column of realistic Link, Zelda/Shiek, and Ganondorf. And then next to it, a column of cel-shaded Young Link, Tetra, and, uh... Makar? He'd rule. :P

[[ray.z]]

Y'know, if they're gonna put more than one cell-shaded Zelda character, then it'll be alright.

Also, does anyone think that there should be alimit to the amount of characters in the game?

[Joshua]

Not really a distinct limit, but I'd expect there to be no higher than 40 different fighters in the game, and probably less. Unless there are a bunch of clone characters...

[greed]

Super Smash Bros Brawl: Attack of the Clones!

*shudder*

[Mirai Gen]

People who should be in SSB:B:

The Battletoads
I mean, can you think of something less appropriate than mutant frogs whom have randomly shapeshifting body parts? Forward smash - GIANT FIST!
the Double Dragons:
Like the Ice Climbers, but even cooler.

[[ray.z]]

The Ice Climbers are cool.

But did the Lee Bros. and the Battletoads have any team moves?

.....

40 characters? Ain't that a bit much though? Like I know it'd be awesome to have that many playable characters, but I think it's a bit excessive.

Cause I'd prefer 30 characters, but that limit is already reached witht the five new characters (unless they get rid of some).

[bananarama]

What SSBB needs is more interactive stages. Glacier Mt., Pokemon Floats, and Rainbow Cruise were steps in the right direction. Also there has got to be more destructible stages. Like if you if attack a certain floor area, it breaks apart to reveal yet another entrance into the Abyss. I know that is used in Brinstar and that Kirby stage already, but that was a really small part of the ground and it would close up shortly.

[[ray.z]]

But those over interactive stages are annoying. They only distract the player from the fight. Sure they can be fun, and often used to your advantage, but they are still a pain in the butt.

That's why Final Destination is, and always will be the best stage. Closely followed by Coneria.

[greed]

I always liked Hyrule Temple and Fountain of Dreams.

[Mr. Viewtiful]

']That's why Final Destination is, and always will be the best stage.
Inquiry: how is Final Destination the best stage? It highly favors projectile-using characters, among other things. Not to mention it's among the dullest stage designs in the game in terms of playability (I will admit that the backgrounds are very cool).

On the other hand, Rainbow Cruise felt more like a 2D platforming game where everyone wants to beat the living crap out of you instead of reaching the end-zone. Sure, it was a lot different from the norm, but I agree that it's a little overdone in its execution.

What Nintendo needs to do is find the right balance in their stages, which I have no doubt they will.

Of course, I'm not the first to say that...

I always liked Hyrule Temple and Fountain of Dreams.
Amen, brother.

[[ray.z]]

How does it favour projectile users? What, the open space? Deal with it. This open space helps define the best characters. Cause if you aint dodging, then of course you're gonna suck. (Note: I use Dr. Mario - not a big projectile user.)

The level is designed to be straight out fighting. Sure different levels require different tactics, but Final Destination requires skill - just basic SSB techniques are all you need on that level.

Hyrule temple is a crummy level. It's huge, so if people wanna run, they can (don't get me wrong - ducking away for a tick is a fair strategy, but some use it in excess). Also, if your opponent goes down to the bottom part, it's a pain in the arse to knock them off the edge.

Fountain of Dreams is alright, if you want a bit of variety.

But yeah some stages, like Rainbow Ride, are definitely cool.

[Joshua]

I have to disagree with you with Hyrule Temple. I guess if you have a friend who sucks at fighting and hides all the time you shouldn't use it, but as long as you are fighting a worthy opponent it makes for a great experience. It's expecially fun to fight underground as the damage racks up. Then you and your opponent can survive for a very long time, as you fly around all over the place.

I agree with Final Destination though. That level rules. As does Corneria. And Great Bay.

The interactive stages are okay when not used so excessively you have to forget about battling and focus entirely on jumping around trying to survive. This is probably the main reason I dislike Icicle Mountain so much. Rainbow Cruise is balanced pretty well, except for that one point in the stage where you only have the pendilum and some magic carpets to keep you alive. Mute City and Big Blue are both genius. PokeFloats is pretty cool as well. That's all of 'em, right?

I'd love to have the raft from Kongo Jungle zooming along the river a la Mute City, making occassional stops at interesting locations.

[greed]

The other big reason( in addition to the ones mentioned above) Hyrule Temple is good is that it removes the effectiveness of items somewhat, they can still be dangerous but you have to use them more tactically.

[Mirai Gen]

If you really want a balanced stage, get to working unlocking Final Destination. It's mostly used for the duelist - When you don't want anyone fucking up your mano-a-mano contest.

I play enough fighter games that this is me 100%

I hope they keep it in Brawl.

[greed]

Already unlocked it, got all the stages except classic yoshi, damn sandbag. :stressed:
On Final destination you can't have items on, stuff like the hammer and the better pokemon just get too powerful.

Besides I have to give most of my friends some chance, they need the items and a larger stage to really have a match, in straight combat they just get slaughtered.

[bananarama]

Already unlocked it, got all the stages except classic yoshi, damn sandbag. :stressed:
On Final destination you can't have items on, stuff like the hammer and the better pokemon just get too powerful.

Besides I have to give most of my friends some chance, they need the items and a larger stage to really have a match, in straight combat they just get slaughtered.

If you are still aiming to get that stage, here's what you do: select yoshi and have him do his flutter kick attack(down+A while midair) as many times as you can on the sandbag and then let it fly!

[greed]

Thanks bannanarama but I've pretty much stopped caring, didn't like that stage in the original so it isn't a biggie.

Anyway, the funny (http://www.duelinganalogs.com/?date=2006-07-05).

Edit: Thanks Mirai Gen

[Kikuichimonji]

Flat != fair. Certain characters are made for flat surfaces (Fox, Falco, Sheik, Marth) - is it really fair to put certain characters in a place where they excel and put other characters (like Link) in a place where it's easy to approach an opponent and there's nowhere to run at all?

I like every stage except Icicle Mountain. It basically turns the game into 'let's see if you can get an attack in while jumping for your freaking life! Oh, and you might still die anyway if the stage moves really fast.'

So, yeah: fair stages aren't the ones that have nothing to them: they're the ones with little treats for most characters.

[Mirai Gen]

Flat != fair. Certain characters are made for flat surfaces (Fox, Falco, Sheik, Marth) - is it really fair to put certain characters in a place where they excel and put other characters (like Link) in a place where it's easy to approach an opponent and there's nowhere to run at all?
I disagree, Kukuichi.

The point of Final Destination is it removes any and all variables (Except items, which usually get disabled) from a straight-up fight. I've seen Link, Samus, Marth, Falco, Fox, Shiek/Zelda, DK, Bowser, Peach, hell even Ice Climbers do perfectly fine on that map.

I won't deny one thing, though - certain characters are more powerful than others. Just take a look at a Smash Bros. Melee tournament online at YouTube or Google Videos - it usually is Fox, Shiek, Peach, or Marth. Sometimes I see Samus, but it's pretty rare.

Here's to hoping in Brawl they do balance tweaks - it's a fighting game now, not a party game.

EDIT: What's best in that comic is the teaser for Samus's titties. That right there makes a comic great.

EDIT EDIT: Also, here's the link for the comic (http://www.duelinganalogs.com/?date=2006-07-05) instead of for the main website.

[Kikuichimonji]

I disagree, Kukuichi.

The point of Final Destination is it removes any and all variables (Except items, which usually get disabled) from a straight-up fight. I've seen Link, Samus, Marth, Falco, Fox, Shiek/Zelda, DK, Bowser, Peach, hell even Ice Climbers do perfectly fine on that map.Think of it this way. You put a jet and a tank in a tunnel to fight to the death. Now, normally a tank would get ka-bombed as the jet flew overhead, and that's that. However, there's no way for it to get enough space to lift off. The tank, on the other hand, is just dandy. Not only can it move how it usually does, but it doesn't have to worry about side or air attacks! Sure, the jet might be able to fire off a missile and kill the tank, but it's definitely harder and requires more skill than it does for the tank to point and shoot.

I'm not saying that characters can't win on Final Destination. I'm just saying that it's lack of... anything does give certain characters an advantage in the same way that stages like Corneria give Jigglypuff an awesome place to use Rollout, or how Big Blue gives fast characters an extremely useful way to move left quickly and get in a quick attack. I mean, it's not unbalancing the game or anything, but saying that Final Destination is the epitome fair stage fails to address that many playstyles greatly benefit from vertical change in the same way that many playstyles greatly benefit from a lack thereof.

[[ray.z]]

Yeh, but as Mirai Gen said:

Here's to hoping in Brawl they do balance tweaks - it's a fighting game now, not a party game.
While the game is awesome to play with mates , it's better when played seriously (specially for money :D!).

I mean, it's not unbalancing the game or anything, but saying that Final Destination is the epitome fair stage fails to address that many playstyles greatly benefit from vertical change.
Now I ain't no professional player, but like adapting playstyles to different characters, we should be able to adapt our playstyles to changes in the terrain. (Yes I know that this would apply to all stages, especially on Big Blue and other moving stages). For example, Dr Mario's Megavitamins don't really work on vertical chages in terrain, so I have to adapt.

Well then I dunno. If you really enjoy only one stage, then only play on that stage. I myself really enjoy Final Destination cause its perfect for dueling. Your personal stage is up to you.

But don't go whinging that "the level didn't suit me" when you lose.

[Kikuichimonji]

']Now I ain't no professional player, but like adapting playstyles to different characters, we should be able to adapt our playstyles to changes in the terrain. (Yes I know that this would apply to all stages, especially on Big Blue and other moving stages). For example, Dr Mario's Megavitamins don't really work on vertical chages in terrain, so I have to adapt.Did I ever say I wouldn't adapt? But for example, I lose certain advantages when there are no platforms to jump - because Link is so freaking slow, often the only 'safe' way to land after being hit in the air is either holding a bomb or on top of a platform (because I could choose to fall through it, they have a harder time predicting what I'm going to do). Because I play Link, Final Destination limits my options far more than it does, say, people who play Fox. No matter how much I 'adapt,' there's very little I can do to make up for the fact that Fox is favored on that map.

']But don't go whinging that "the level didn't suit me" when you lose.I never said I did. However, I'm telling you that it's more 'fair' to choose a random stage than it is to choose Final Destination. I have a chance to have the upper hand then, in the same way another player might have the chance to get Final Destination and have the upper hand against me.

[Mirai Gen]

I never said I did. However, I'm telling you that it's more 'fair' to choose a random stage than it is to choose Final Destination. I have a chance to have the upper hand then, in the same way another player might have the chance to get Final Destination and have the upper hand against me.
But if that's how you play, you might as well flip a coin.

I get what you're hinting at, but you may as well just flip a coin to see who wins if terrain does that much to harm your groove. Hell, I play Zelda, and Nayru's Love does about the entire stage in distance at Final Destination. I also play Bowser, and anyone who wants to can rock me because of his sluggish controls.

However, I can dish out my own punishment as well - I can adjust and, instead of pressing the attack to them, I let them come to me and act accordingly.

Really, I understand. But I think that Link really can do some serious damage on Final Destination if you play him correctly - just put the computer on Level 9 with Link and set up a match, and watch what the computer does. It's how I picked up Bowser and Zelda. Copy their moves.

Well, except Powershielding. That's just fucking hard to do.

[[ray.z]]

Powershielding? That's what you do to reflect items (among other things) with your shield right?

That is a pain in the butt to do. I wish I could, cause it's good for countering moves, but instead I just op for Dr Mario's Super Sheet (which isn't always the best thing to use).

What about wavedashing - is it worth it? Like it looks good, and it can pull of some sick moves, but still ....

Samus Super Wavedashing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkx_nUSE4JA)

@ greed (and everyone in general): You said you didn't care anymore about getting Yoshi's stage, but check this out - Ganondorf Home Run Glitch (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCthEEbMTLo)

[Axl]

For me, wavedashing is good when a) it's a character with crappy traction and therefore a good wavedash or b) a character with a crappy roll like samus. I mean wavedashing has a variety of uses but in serious play I use falco- whose regular roll is more than adequate for my needs. Wavedashing is worth it if you make it work.

[Mirai Gen]

The Black Hole glitch. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKvbVEjHU8w&search=smash%20bros%20melee%20glitch)

Combine one part Peach, two parts Falco/Fox, stir in an insanely high speed, and watch the fun.

[greed]

Getting back on topic, and not starting a new one becuase this one hasn't been closed yet for some reason.

I just had an idea, what if each character had an item they got extra abilities for.
Say Kirby with a warpstar, instead of just one star crashing down, 3 crash down and then when they land, the 3 Kirby's all go back together like when he splits up in the games.
Or Fox can pull cool tricks with the Blaster, like firing faster or rebounding shots, as a parody/homage to Revolver Ocelot.
And Mario gets Fire added to all his moves when he's holding a fire flower.
Maybe Snake does double damage with the cloaking device on.

Well those are my ideas, anyone else got some?

[Chaoswizard]

put in anyone from tales of symphonia

[Mr. Viewtiful]

I just had an idea, what if each character had an item they got extra abilities for.
Say Kirby with a warpstar, instead of just one star crashing down, 3 crash down and then when they land, the 3 Kirby's all go back together like when he splits up in the games.
Or Fox can pull cool tricks with the Blaster, like firing faster or rebounding shots, as a parody/homage to Revolver Ocelot.
And Mario gets Fire added to all his moves when he's holding a fire flower.
Maybe Snake does double damage with the cloaking device on.
I really like this concept, but it'd make character balance a pain in the rear.

Then again, I'm not the one making SSB:B, so I could care less.

Personally, I'd like to see more special taunts, kinda like the ones Fox and Falco have in the Star Fox stages. After all, if they can't have the amazing Dan Hibiki, they can at least pay tribute!

YAHOOIE!

[greed]

As this thread isn't closed I'll post it here.

There is news. (http://www.joystiq.com/2006/07/31/kojima-to-design-snakes-smash-bros-brawl-stage/)

A dev team that includes Miyamato as a Producer, Sakurai as a director, Uematsu as Music and now Kojima as a designer, that just gives me the warm fuzzies. Wonder if they'll get other big names over there from other third parties(think of Toriyama doing a Chronotrigger stage).

[Giant Fishball]

http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=928518&topic=28629014

That's got some translated goodness inside. Check it out.

[Regulus Tera]

Oh, fuck you Greed. Just when I thought I was safe from falling to the SSBB madness again, you come and give me this piece of crack?! I'm once again addicted. I'll sleep thinking of SSBB, I'll orgasm thinking of SSBB, I'll put on my panties thinking of SSBB.

It's all your fault, you bastard.

Now, include some MGS-esque plot twists (OMG, A PLOT!) and a Koji Kondo AND Nobuo Uematsu composition. Then I will say Y' know what? Fuck it. I'm going to commit suicide. The pain is just unbearable.

#251-260: Sakurai will eventually reveal all the secret characters (unknown if this is before or after the game’s release), and he will make Snake (and all other guest characters) into an unlockable character.


You mean I have to actually be worthy of my Snake goodness? This is will get better before it gets worse. The latter which won't happen.

[Mirai Gen]

Wow. If they just had Jesus as manager of the project, this would be the best game ever.

Now hopefully they'll balance Shiek out a bit. Just a little.

[Fifthfiend]

A hundred and forty-two posts? I mean, what?

SO closed!