Another look at The Lost Episode (434)!

[Hyarion]

Just thought it's been a while since we had one of these topics, and it might be nice to look at the old chestnut again in light of the newer revelations. A lot has happened since then; the LWs have class changed, and White Mage has undergone some serious character changes. Let's recap on what we KNOW about the "Forbidden Episode".


What we know: (By Brain, therefore ^almost^ guaranteed truth.)

1. Someone speaking in dialogue boxes with a color pattern very similar to what BM used when he was King of Hell is speaking to...

2. Someone speaking in red-themed dialogue boxes. At present, this could represent any of the following....

3. Fighter, Red Mage, White Mage, Princess Sara, or Sarda. However...

4. Due to the context of the comic, we know that this conversation takes place at some point in the unspecified future. Furthermore, the red-box person is in the air ship/deathtrap on the way to Gurgu with Black Mage stuck to the windshield. This narrows the above list to...

5. Fighter, Red Mage, or White Mage. Furthermore...

6. We know there is blood on White Mage's robes. But...

7. We don't know who it belongs to or how it got there.


If we examine the textboxes,
The Red text boxes match RM, see Episode 141: FULL FRONTAL NUDITY (http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=020422)
Note: The red textboxes do NOT match Fighter, who's text boxes are pure red, not graded, or White Mage, who's text boxes are pink. And Brian actually said, "Pink Is Not Red", at one point.
The Orange/Yellow text boxes match Hell King BM, see Episode 396: He's Back (http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=040318).
The orange text boxes also match BM's Evil, in Episode 614: Escalations (http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=051020), so they almost certainly represent a super evil BM.

HOWEVER; this is not a certain thing. The textboxes seem representative of Great Evil, so it's possible that they belong to someone else, who's become just as evil as BM was... Unlikely, but possible. And if BM's textboxes could change colour then, who's to say that someone else's couldn't, and the other speaker might not be RM after all?
However, what is being said almost guarantees that it's BM with the Evil text, and RM does seem plausible as the second speaker.
It also seems likely that he'd leave RM till last if he killed his fellow LWs since he probably has more contempt for him than the others: he respects Fighter for his toughness, as can be seen when Kary blasts him (http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=041023). "See! It's not just me! He never dies!"
He respects Thief for his evil and his cunning, though I can't give you an example offhand. The only one he has no respect for is RM, and hence he would probably leave him till last, figuring that he poses the least threat.
What do you think?

Oh, and one other thing: in the last discussion thread, it was argued that it couldn't be WM in the red, because they sounded so negative about destiny etc. Given the changes she seems to have gone through, I think she now seems considerably more likely. I still think it's RM, but she looks much more likely than she did.

[Nayno]

I think there is more reason not to suspect White Mage because of the emphasis that Brian put on "pink is not red".

I don't really think we know that much more since the last thread, which I read through and eventually gave up because everyone was pretty much beating a dead horse. However, seeing as how I wasn't around to post my two cents back then...

I'm one of the people who thinks it should be Fighter or White Mage. As much as I love Red Mage, the conversation would just hold so much more weight if it was one of the other two. And because I don't think it's White Mage, I'm rooting for Fighter.

A lot of the things Brian said are ambiguously worded; for example, the Hell King boxes could be anybody. But he appears to say, without a doubt, that the red boxes are someone who was on the airship, and that there will be blood on WM's robes.

[Burkion]

It wouldn't make sense if the HellKing boxes were anyone else BUT BM.

And, guys, I practically came up with the concept of Fighter VS Black Mage (In the last few threads concerning this) and it was generally agreed upon that it WAS Fighter talking to BM, at the final battle.

Why? BM had killed off everyone else. He sacrficed the only thing he ever cared for. (White Mage) And, when it comes right down to it, the comic started with BM and Fighter, it will END with BM and Fighter.

[Lord Kibble]

And, guys, I practically came up with the concept of Fighter VS Black Mage (In the last few threads concerning this) and it was generally agreed upon that it WAS Fighter talking to BM, at the final battle.

That sounds awfully predictable and uncharacteristically unimaginative of 8BT. I'd be thoroughly disappointed if things turned out that way. Has anyone ever considered that the whole "Wouldn't You Like to Know" episode was a ruse, and that Brian was really just trying to set up a joke concerning Fighter and BM looking back on their lives from beyond the grave? Throw in a few ambiguously suggestive images and some vague conversation concerning tragic past events that could have been averted, and you've got yourself an episode that people will be talking about for years.

Think about it. Would you derive more satisfaction from the final episode of 8BT knowing that you had had all the answers since #434, or would you derive more satisfaction from the fact that Brian once again defied the rules and played us all for fools one last time?

[superluser]

I've never encountered the previous threads about this strip, so somebody stop me if this has been said before:

Note: this analysis is based purely on the internal textual clues, and doesn't have anything to do with colors.

The orange is Evil White Mage, after she has been corrupted--a process that we see happening right now. Red is Sarda, in league with Chaos. When WM looks back on her life, from the creation of the universe to getting sent through White Mage Academy to follow a similar path to Sarda's (presumably *by* Sarda), meeting Sarda, and a whole lot of other stuff that we haven't seen yet, it looks like an inevitable chain of events.

Sarda is late to realize this. He's still playing catch-up to his own machinery.

Sarda says that it's not too late. But, as EWM points out, for BB, it is too late. Sarda knows that he could save BB, but chose not to, to the consternation of EWM.

Finally, EWM, with her dress drenched in the blood of all those she has killed, asks Sarda why he sent her to Gorgu with landing coordinates of BM's head.

Because Sarda thought that it would be funny.

And it is.

[Nayno]

Burkion: Actually, I think you are right due to the context of the discussion, but there is still a very slight possibility that the boxes aren't BM. I quote: "1. Someone speaking in dialogue boxes with a color pattern very similar to what BM used when he was King of Hell is speaking to..." This sounds exactly like something Brian would say if BM was NOT the speaker... though it is still VERY LIKELY that he is. Brian has not confirmed that the yellow boxes are BM, and that was what I was trying to point out.

Also, your Fighter vs. BM is pure speculation. It's plausible, of course, but it is still speculation nonetheless.

Lord Kibble: The first time I read 434, I figured that the conversation was just made up for the joke. It wasn't until I saw the reaction in the forums that I looked any closer at it. Rampant speculation is fun, y'know. But I wonder what Brian's original intention was... and whether that intention has changed after seeing how strongly his fanbase reacted to that comic. Who knows, maybe the whole 434 issue snowballed out of his control... but if that is the case I wonder why he doesn't just tell anybody who is talking in the red boxes. Or why he would even use the Hell King boxes. He could just be messin' with us.

Superluser: That doesn't fit very well with the joke, though... but maybe BM laughs along with Sarda by then. Also, why would Sarda say "We thought it'd be funny"? I suppose he could have a co-conspirator we don't know about.

[Lord Kibble]

Finally, EWM, with her dress drenched in the blood of all those she has killed, asks Sarda why he sent her to Gorgu with landing coordinates of BM's head.

Because Sarda thought that it would be funny.

And it is.

Sarda wasn't in charge of the landing, BB was. Even if Sarda had intended for them to land on top of BM, BB's phenomenally dense navigational skills would have easily rendered Sarda's immense powers useless. The only reason that he and WM found the Light Warriors at all is because they were all on the exact opposite side of the world in regards to their destination.

In any case, the only concrete information that we can extract from the 434 conversation is that the orange box is BM. As Brian has admitted, humor always trumps continuity, and unless the orange text boxes on the bloody second-to-last panel belong to BM, then the joke doesn't work. In the first five panels, Orange and Red are in the process of "looking back," while in the last panel it is BM who remarks that one day he'll be able to look back upon the whole "crushed beneath the deathtrap" ordeal and laugh about it.

Does everyone understand this yet?

In the fifth panel, Orange asks Red: "when we went to Gurgu ... why did you do it like that?" Red responds that they (plural, meaning more than one person) thought that it would be funny. Orange finally concedes that, looking back, it was pretty funny after all. In context, it appears that Orange must be BM (although the fact that he fails to mention specifics regarding the occasion does leave us with a bit of uncertainty, it would take a major revelation of something that happened at the same time to invalidate this theory). Because of the word "we", Red cannot be Sarda, unless Sarda is a schizo. Almost certainly, Red is one of the five characters aboard the deathtrap, who all made the decision to leave BM plastered to the front.

That's what we know. Personally, the most obvious choice for Red would be Fighter, though the language seems too haughty and complex for Fighter. A better choice may be either WM or RM, but this hardly leaves us any better off than we were when we started.

[Burkion]

Sarda wasn't in charge of the landing, BB was. Even if Sarda had intended for them to land on top of BM, BB's phenomenally dense navigational skills would have easily rendered Sarda's immense powers useless. The only reason that he and WM found the Light Warriors at all is because they were all on the exact opposite side of the world in regards to their destination.

In any case, the only concrete information that we can extract from the 434 conversation is that the orange box is BM. As Brian has admitted, humor always trumps continuity, and unless the orange text boxes on the bloody second-to-last panel belong to BM, then the joke doesn't work. In the first five panels, Orange and Red are in the process of "looking back," while in the last panel it is BM who remarks that one day he'll be able to look back upon the whole "crushed beneath the deathtrap" ordeal and laugh about it.

Does everyone understand this yet?

In the fifth panel, Orange asks Red: "when we went to Gurgu ... why did you do it like that?" Red responds that they (plural, meaning more than one person) thought that it would be funny. Orange finally concedes that, looking back, it was pretty funny after all. In context, it appears that Orange must be BM (although the fact that he fails to mention specifics regarding the occasion does leave us with a bit of uncertainty, it would take a major revelation of something that happened at the same time to invalidate this theory). Because of the word "we", Red cannot be Sarda, unless Sarda is a schizo. Almost certainly, Red is one of the five characters aboard the deathtrap, who all made the decision to leave BM plastered to the front.

That's what we know. Personally, the most obvious choice for Red would be Fighter, though the language seems too haughty and complex for Fighter. A better choice may be either WM or RM, but this hardly leaves us any better off than we were when we started.

Want to nitpick on that last bit.

Fighter HAS been known to talk like that.

In the essay he found from the future about Sword Chucks, for instance, he was writing in the same way that we see Red talking.

Similar, later when BM is making jokes about BB, Fighter comments and talks alot like Red.

And finally, Magus/Darko. Did he or did he not comment that "Not even Swordopolisis' FOOL can stop you now..."

[Lord Kibble]

My contention isn't with the words that Fighter supposedly says, it's with the way that they're said. I can't quite put my finger on it, but it's not like any BM/Fighter dialogue I've ever seen. I suppose the problem is that the speakers treat each other as equals, a sentiment that BM has not historically shared with Fighter (if anything, he regards Thief as his nearest intellectual equivalent). The most apt match of character-to-dialogue that I can think of would make the other speaker WM. Then again, I can't easily envision those two conversing so casually.

Gah, there's just too many things going on to sufficiently analyze the episode without spending two hours deciphering each sentence word by word. I hope it doesn't come to that, because I try to uphold some semblance of a life.

As for the Swordopolis thing, he's one of the biggest X-factors of the universe at the moment, along with Chaos (including all monsters and middle management), the Four Fiends, Sarda, the Other Warriors, the Real Light Warriors, Raven/Bahamut/Matoya, and (potentially) the Real Bearded Warriors. Any one of those groups could have a significant impact on the end game, which is precisely why the Dark Warriors were excluded from that listing.

Finally, in which comic did Fighter get a message from the future? Wasn't that a guest comic?

EDIT: Ah yes, here it is (http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=030628). The writing still seems a tad bit too much like good ol' Fighter, though. Our mystery speaker is presumably exceptionally eloquent and insightful.

[Nayno]

I suppose the problem is that the speakers treat each other as equals, a sentiment that BM has not historically shared with Fighter (if anything, he regards Thief as his nearest intellectual equivalent).

I agree... out of WM, RM, and Fighter, it sounds most like WM and least like Fighter. But I haven't yet ruled out that both Fighter and BM could undergo major character development; For example, BM might acknowledge Fighter as his equal if Fighter defeats him in an EPIC BATTLE (TM). And Fighter might gain a great amount of wisdom when he gets all Enlightened Warrior-y. Sort of like how Goku turned serious when he went Super Saiyan for the first time. :D

Maybe I should change my vote to White Mage or Red Mage. White Mage would be an even better choice than Fighter, but those damned pink text boxes...

[Burkion]

Also, wrong future note.

It happend when Sarda screwed up time, by trying to make his meal without cooking it, way before we ever actually MEET Sarda.

Remember? It's where we first see their Class Changed forms...only they lose them. Fighter finds the eassy on Sword Chucks...

And BM destroys it.

[Dj_StarChild]

I bet 50 Canadian happy points that there'll be some loose end that we can explot at the end, and then someone will make an FFX-2 style sequel to 8bt, in which that loose end is tied up, but ultimately doesn't have anything to do with the original plot....I don't know why I decided on that wager...I think that I was just inspired by all of the potentially cool potential plots that people are coming up with (even though, they probably aren't what's going to happen.)

[UZ_White]

Perhaps I'm just an idiot, but I've always had an entierly different theory on this whole thing.

I am under the impression that everyone will wind up dead at the end. Except for Black Mage. And Black Mage is talking to, get this, himself. He will go crazy and have his fervor eventually split him into 2 entities, (One of which will turn out to be "Chaos".) and he will wind up fighting himself. Similar to the Temple of Ordeals where he talks to his evilness, except the evil side always knew how it was going to end in this dialogue.

Unfortunately, I noticed that the 4th panel entierly disproves my theory, so I trashed it. I am still hoping that the true answer is going to be some loophole-like similarity to my theory so I can laugh at everyone.

But it won't. Laugh at me and call me names now.

[Heliomance]

After having read through some of the old discussion threads (by the way, if someone knows where to find the offficial strip thread, could they link to it please?) I subscribe to the theory that it's Black Wizard and Knight (future versions of BM and fighter)

[Burkion]

The offical thread? I read that once. Jesus, I laughed at 'em.

Most of 'em didn't get it back then just how differnt this was compared to what we think it is now.

They thought that the blood stains on WM's robe as itillian food.

Anyways, everyone is dead. You see, BM killed everyone. RM, Thief, BB (Well, that weirdo clone...) and finally, to get ultimate power, the power Sarda promsied, he sacrified the only thing he ever cared for: White Mage.

Leaving only him, and a grown up Fighter.

[YF-23]

You know, I agree with the theory that BM kills everyone else. Think about it, he's alone now, the other LWs may not even go back to get him. I have a theory anyway...
BM is found by Chaos or a servant of Chaos, and joins their side (he is evil after all). Then we continue the quest of the rest of the gang, who beat Kraken and Tiamat, then they go to the temple of fiends to finish the job only to find BM there, assigned to stop them. He kills off everyone else (the explosion and the light in the third and fourth panels of 434 might be magic) and then the 434 dialogue with the Fighter, the sole survivor (who upon witnessing everything that BM has done either reaches enlightment by himself or Swordopolis puts his hand at that) and BM begins. Then, the fight between BM and Fighter begins.
But that's just speculation. Also, I don't know why, but I think that BM will be given new evil magic powers by Chaos, and should I be proven corrected, he will use that magic to kill everyone (exept for Fighter). And that magic would be none other than Ultima, to which we got a brief mention in an early comic by BM.

BUT! I, as everyone else can be totally wrong. After all, we have lots of episodes to come, and plenty of character development that the characters will undergo. They still have to obtain Oxyale (so that the deathtrap does not "instantly kill everybody on board" when it goes underwater), which means they have to go to the caravan (so that they obtain the Fairy) then go back to Gaia (if my theory is wrong that could be where they meet with BM and he comes with them again against his free will-that is always assuming that the town they where in is Gaia) fight the Kraken, get the cube thingie by the robot at the waterfall, go through the double dungeon to reach Tiamat (that tower and the Flying Fortress), fight Tiamat, go back to the temple of fiends, fight all the four fiends again, and then the final battle. That can easily reach an episode number 2000, so we not even be halfway.

[Quickman X]

In my own humble opinion, this comic was a one-time thing -- there to cause controversy. Seriously, I can see Brian doing something sadistic and evil like that...
It's probably not, but hey.
On another note, how do we know those are WM's robes? If we see a red background, do we automatically assume it's Fighter's armor? Is a blue background necessarily Thief's hair or BM's cloak? You saw the other odd BGs, I presume, so the red-and-white one could be anything. It could be that a wizard just did it.
For fun.
Next, the red crap is almost certainly blood. Same style as always.
Finally, has it occurred to anyone that, maybe, we haven't met one or both of the characters? I mean, why would Black Mage have reacquired his Hell-King status for whatever the hell that is -- the final battle against Chaos, the betrayal of his teammates, a round of violent hammer-smashing by White Mage?

[Nayno]

You are forgetting the things that Brian has said for himself are true... namely, that those are White Mage's robes and that there is blood on them.

Also, the context of the conversation works best if it's BM and one of the other light warriors... and I believe that Brian has pretty much said already that it's one of the people who were on the airship. It might be White Mage, Black Belt, or Thief if their dialogue boxes ever turn red, but Red Mage and Fighter already have red boxes.

[Quickman X]

You are forgetting the things that Brian has said for himself are true... namely, that those are White Mage's robes and that there is blood on them.
He said that? Oops.

[Aebliss]

Like I said in another thread - which I started because I didn't know about this one, thanks for the reference - I think WM is the one speaking in red. She's the one who believes in destiny and she was at the beginning of time ... The 8bit world's creator would be a logical choice as its destroyer, wouldn't she?. Also, the comment that it is too late for some people could be a reference to WM's grief and guilt over BB's death (not to mention other folks who she might've killed, like all light warriors but one). "All I've done is kill a good man twice," remember? As for the question "why did you do it like that when we went to Gurgu", yes, that does seem to indicate BM is one of those speaking. But it needn't be; at the time, WM may have been mildly perturbed, but looking back as an EWM, she might agree it was funny to use BM as a hood ornament.
Another bit of speculation; as the 8Bit universe's creator (creatrix?), wouldn't WM also be the ideal candidate for defeating Chaos? If she then took his place, well, that's another kettle of fish.

[Jared Todd]

But I wonder what Brian's original intention was... and whether that intention has changed after seeing how strongly his fanbase reacted to that comic. Who knows, maybe the whole 434 issue snowballed out of his control...
Well, if that's the case, he probably didn't decide concretely on one single theory, and he's waiting for the best, and least-mentioned to surprise everyone on the boards, and off the boards.

It's not like any BM/Fighter dialogue I've ever seen. I suppose the problem is that the speakers treat each other as equals, a sentiment that BM has not historically shared with Fighter (if anything, he regards Thief as his nearest intellectual equivalent).
Well, BM's been known to be actual freinds with Fighter, especially in the last couple (http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=060404) (Episode 681: Of Civilizations, and Episode 682: Pointless Retribution) few (http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=060304) (Episode 669: So Very Many Innovations) comics. I mean, BM still solves his problems through murdering, Fighter just makes a lot of problems. Who do you think is his best friend in this comic? RM and Thief don't even care about him. Whether Black Mage'd like to say it or not, Fighter holds something special in his heart.


Now... I'm going to do this once, then never again, because I don't really think my theories have been put in very much light besides the Class Change Characteristic theory I had (which still holds weight. Yay! ^-^), and I don't want to jeapordize the chance of Brian taking my theory under his wing. But it's an interesting story, and since there's, like, a 0.006% chance he'll take it (not even that much of a chance), here goes (again).

BM would leave the party at some point, and meet Chaos and/or Magus, and take the destiny of defeating those who would try to save the four crystals. He'd probably make a quick end to the "Real Light" Warriors, then move onto the Other Warriors, and maybe even Sarda, himself, so that Sarda wouldn't use any magic to cancel out killing the real threat; the Lite Warriors. Now, BM, liking all the evil deeds he's done, puts on his game face to fight the Lite Warriors somewhere, god only knows. Now, meeting back up with the Lite Warriors, he sees White Mage is still travelling with them. But Fighter is too kind to him, and he still is in love with White Mage, so he just can't kill them both. Instead, he kills the next big enemy (which could be Magus or Chaos) with/for them, and travels with them again. Magus (if he's not alive, it'd be Chaos) is enraged, and goes to murder the Lite Warriors for BM, then force him to become a slave of of Chaos/himself (if Chaos isn't still alive, Magus would probably kill him for revenge instead). Regardless of who it is that attacks the Lite Warriors, the enemy'll yell at BM to join back with them (or whatever), and that they'll deal with his nuissances. They kill White Mage, and try to kill Fighter. Whether he dies or not, that doesn't matter, because Black Mage will be so enraged by the enemy, he'd be endlessly confused. The enemy would notice Fighter is still alive (BM is probably the only one that knows how to kill Fighter by this point.), and tell BM to kill him since he knows how to, and it would be his last chance to make things right. Fighter will try to pull BM in the direction of destroying the enemy, and in an act of revenge, BM does exactly that. But White Mage is still dead. and it's too late.

The actual conversation could come when BM is challenged to kill Fighter, or after BM destroys Chaos/Magus/Whoever.

[Aebliss]

Y'know ... RM might not die at all. See here (http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=050524); Sarda 'used his last magical energies'. Maybe to escape something? Like death? What if it's RM, the ultimate munchkin, who makes a last-ditch effort to put some hideously overblown plan into effect? Sarda's character and RM's aren't too different, they both have access to the full scale of magics ... they're both abusive with their powers, violent when it suits their needs and completely lacking in anything resembling ethics when they want something. Going insane with boredom from waiting for centuries could've warped RM even more than normal life has done.

[BlackBelt McMonk]

(haven't read previous discussions on this, so sorry if proposed before)

I have absolutely nothing to back it up, other than a passing similarity in text-box color, and that it's probably not what most people would be expecting, but I'm currently toying with the idea that it's a conversation between Thief and Red Mage. ...Yeah, not really anything to back it up but, eh.

[Nayno]

Y'know ... RM might not die at all. See here (http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=050524); Sarda 'used his last magical energies'. Maybe to escape something? Like death? What if it's RM, the ultimate munchkin, who makes a last-ditch effort to put some hideously overblown plan into effect? Sarda's character and RM's aren't too different, they both have access to the full scale of magics ... they're both abusive with their powers, violent when it suits their needs and completely lacking in anything resembling ethics when they want something. Going insane with boredom from waiting for centuries could've warped RM even more than normal life has done.

That actually makes a lot of sense! I mean, not the parts about RM's current personality... he doesn't really abuse his powers and he isn't really violent. I think he has some ethics too. But that might change before he's the age Sarda was when Sarda went back in time... anyway, consider:

Red Mage's lifelong dream is to become a god. Sarda's lifelong dream is to become creator of the universe. Coincidence? Probably, but it's a cool idea anyway.

And I always figured that if any of the Lightbulb Warriors died, they'd just be revived... unless it's Black Mage and he turns into the Big Bad at the end of the series.

[Lord Kibble]

Well, BM's been known to be actual freinds with Fighter, especially in the last couple (http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=060404) (Episode 681: Of Civilizations, and Episode 682: Pointless Retribution) few (http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=060304) (Episode 669: So Very Many Innovations) comics.

Those first two comics only show how BM regards Fighter as something akin to a hapless child. Personally, I don't regularly choose to have deeply philosophical conversations with people whose intellect is equivalent to that of a five year-old. And in that last comic, BM is only briefly tolerating Fighter's insolence because it potentially means that he gets to kill something. Unfortunately for him, Fighter's stupidity once again lets him down and incurs stabbity vengeance.

I mean, BM still solves his problems through murdering, Fighter just makes a lot of problems. Who do you think is his best friend in this comic? RM and Thief don't even care about him. Whether Black Mage'd like to say it or not, Fighter holds something special in his heart.

As we've seen, Black Mage doesn't have any friends (http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=040708). What he has is a highly dysfunctional relationship based solely on abuse. The only special place that Fighter occupies in BM's black heart is a room filled with a thousand piercing shards of eternal loathing. In other, more pathetic forms of media, once one character (such as BM) is freed of his eternal tormentor (such as Fighter), he eventually begins to miss him. In 8BT, this sort of emotional crap does not happen. In 8BT, once a character (such as BM) is freed of his eternal tormentor (such as Fighter), he settles in to a quiet life as a murderous cobbler for the remainder of his days.

I have absolutely nothing to back it up, other than a passing similarity in text-box color, and that it's probably not what most people would be expecting, but I'm currently toying with the idea that it's a conversation between Thief and Red Mage. ...Yeah, not really anything to back it up but, eh.

As I explained earlier, the context of the comic implies without a doubt that the orange speaker is BM. However, the wording is just ambiguous enough to allow for other outcomes. We should consider the possibility that the two speakers are Thief and RM, and that when Orange asks, "why did you do it like that?" they were really referring to a completely unrelated event that occured aboard the deathtrap on the way to Crescent Lake. Given the amount of thought that people are putting into this, having this entire mysterious episode turn out to be completely irrelevant would be the most entertaining outcome by far.

As a final note, every single endgame theory I've seen in this thread so far is entirely too predictable. This isn't Harry Potter and the Four Orbs of Destiny. Just because something is foreshadowed does not guarantee that anything of the sort will occur. I would tell you what's going to happen, but I don't want to ruin it for everybody. Let's just say that Forest Imps feature prominently. ;)

[Mac]

EDIT: Ah yes, here it is (http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=030628). The writing still seems a tad bit too much like good ol' Fighter, though. Our mystery speaker is presumably exceptionally eloquent and insightful.

believe it or not, there are examples of Fighter beign eloquent and insightful

Insightful (http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=010302) yeah that is stretching it a bit.

Eloquent (http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=041202) Third panel after letter.

But after reading this and giving it my analasys, how do we believ that Black mage is not simply talking to himself or the (more) evil part of himself.

[darkie]

Omg, I love this thread. I believe it has to be White Mage or Fighter, no way around it.

"Every little thing its so painful obvius now, isn't it?" Think about it! Fighter is always not really understanding what BM do. He believes that there is some kind of justification about all that murdering and senseless killing. That BM is his friend. And thinks BM actually care about him. Wouldn't you feel pain to know everything you believe was wrong?


Then, there is Magus. We've seen the forces of good working in the background, Dr. Swordopolis and Fighter. He has a real quest given by some Uber Power. Now, BM has it to. BM, didnt class change with the power of bahamut, he did it with the power of Chaos. SO that makes WM the fourth light warrior xD

Back to the point.... Light vs Darkness, Good vs Evil, Law vs Chaos, Meele vs Magic... Fighter vs Black Mage.


White Mage is other good choice. She has now some personality problems about destiny and the universe, etc etc. The way its talking in the comic sounds like the new White Mage. "Things just happen" Coincidence... she got to the begining of time, BM just died (twice), the light warriors are morons. "Things just happen"

[NoDot]

BM, didnt class change with the power of bahamut, he did it with the power of Chaos. SO that makes WM the fourth light warrior xDNo. Bahamut tried to change BM's class, but it required Magus to fully complete the unbinding. White Mage is not a Light Warrior!

[YF-23]

No. Bahamut tried to change BM's class, but it required Magus to fully complete the unbinding. White Mage is not a Light Warrior!
What's the proof to that? BM didn't change class thanks to Bahamut, he changed class thanks to Magus. Why would Bahamut have done something? There is nothing indicating that Bahamut helped BM change class, nor do I think he had the power to unbound the Nexus. I myself believe that WM should be part of the LWs instead of BM. After all, he should have been voted out of the team from the very beginning. Remember the voting episodes? Even Fighter voted him out! Now, what else than fate could cause Fighter voting off his "bestest buddy"?

[blackwaltzomega]

It seems to me that it is probably Red Mage. WM, despite the potential negativity, doesn't talk to BM like that. RM and BM have been able to civilly talk to each other on certain unimportant topics, and I think that the Red textbox speaker sounds more like RM than Fighter. Fighter CAN speak about intelligent subjects (For a PAINFULLY short amount of time, I must point out), but RM is the only one that discusses philisophical problems. The person talking to Hellking BM in that comic's points remind me of the rants RM will go off on occasionally. Fighter and WM don't think or talk like that.

At least we can all agree that Orange is HKBM.

[Burkion]

Apparntly not all of us. Some nut jobs still think that that is Thief's voice.

Spoony bards.

[Heliomance]

Red could be knight. Fighter grown up, become more mature - possibly as a result of finally realising BM is not a good idol. He realises what BM is truly like, this shakes him to the core, and causes him to grow up fast. It's possible.

[Meister]

What's the proof to that? BM didn't change class thanks to Bahamut, he changed class thanks to Magus. Why would Bahamut have done something? There is nothing indicating that Bahamut helped BM change class, nor do I think he had the power to unbound the Nexus.
I'm absolutely positive Brian stated that the Dark God completed Black Mage's class change. Bahamut initiated it, but the Nexus needed to be unlocked before it could come into effect. I don't have a link handy though, sorry.

[Vidihawk]

It seems to me that it is probably Red Mage. WM, despite the potential negativity, doesn't talk to BM like that. RM and BM have been able to civilly talk to each other on certain unimportant topics, and I think that the Red textbox speaker sounds more like RM than Fighter. Fighter CAN speak about intelligent subjects (For a PAINFULLY short amount of time, I must point out), but RM is the only one that discusses philisophical problems. The person talking to Hellking BM in that comic's points remind me of the rants RM will go off on occasionally. Fighter and WM don't think or talk like that.

At least we can all agree that Orange is HKBM.

I am actually drawn to this theory. Thus far, we have learned very little about RM's history that wasn't soon called into question. He has shown, in my opinion, the least depth... I think he'd be a perfect shocker to pop in for that conversation.

Honestly, RM has most often seemed like the outsider looking in to the LWs. It seems reasonable that he'd be able to philosophize so readily about how and why the course of events unfolded as they did.

[Fifthfiend]

I refer you to my previous comments on the matter (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showthread.php?p=362049&#post362049).

Rereading 434, I was struck by the way the monologues key into the particular characters. I mean, Black Mage paints a pretty starkly fatalistic picture of events, as though all his life something had been moving him towards an inevitable conclusion. Which stands out on account of it becomes increasingly clear that Black Mage is most definitely the pawn of forces far greater than himself, bent and twisted and driven ever onward by a power that is a part of him and yet utterly beyond his control. Whereas as Fighter would put it, "Things just happen." Which is perfectly in keeping with the way Fighter has acted over the whole course of the comic - just letting things happen, bouncing off in whatever random direction life throws him. Or acting, but not out of any purpose or cause, but just out of whatever reaction is his first response to anything going on around him.

Which in the end is why I think the second character has to be Fighter, because I can't see RM ever saying anything like that - it's too built into his worldview that life is one long epic strugle between himself and the DM. And I don't see it as being White Mage either, because she's taken too much of an active role, spent too much time working in order to make things happen. I mean, there could be the possibility that she's expressing some sort of disillusionment, except that, even if she should decide that she'd spent all that time pushing things in the wrong direction, she still can't deny that it was herself who did the pushing. Besides, as I said, it feels like this is supposed to be something that speaks to the heart of how these two characters grasp the world and how their experiences have shaped them, not something tossed off in a fit of pique and angst.

So anyway I thought that all was very clever and wanted to share.

[Mac]

The relationship between Fighter and Black Mage is paralell to George and Lenny from Of Mice and Men. Black mage is the brains while Fighter is nothing more then a meat shield, one can;t live without the other.

Also, Black mage is a Lite Warrior. Sure it looks like that the real Light Warriors have a Red Wizard, Knight, White Wizard and a Ninja, but lets looks at the differences between them and the other warriors.

It is clear that Knight is the leader because he is the most intelligent of the group. If they are the Lite Warriors of the Future, Thief would still be in charge. Fighter is too stupid to be leader with Thief around. Thief would keep on conning his way back into leadership.

The Ninja wears red, a mask and hood. He also seems to be the quiet, reserved one. Not ever does he try and bilk money out of anyone. Not even his employers when he was stuck at the burger joint. Thief on the other hand wears black, goes with out a Hood and Mask, and is a massive Kleptomaniac.

Red Wizard never, EVER mentions Twink or Min/Max. Even when they were stuck on the frozen continent, he doesn;t make any crazy plans involveing the ice as a boat, or Min/maxing their items. How Ever RM on the other hand was trying EVERYTHING to get off the the island. He even resorted to Genetic manipulation on the chocobo's.

White Wizard is a Male, White mage is female. That point is clear.

that should end the time travel debate on the section.


In an episode, we do see that before Sarda tries eat his food before cooking it, he messes up the time line and removes the Lite Warriors class change. There we see that BM is a Blue Mage, RM is a Mime, Fighter is a Paladn/Knight and Thief is hoodless and wears black. Also, we don;t see WM anywhere.

What i think is going to happen is that WM is going to die. Last time they went up against a Fiend, BB died. When they fought Lich BM died. He was later revived after Lich usurped him but the fact that he died still proves that he is an important character. Remember the old rule, Important/Main Characters almost never die.

[Mondt]

Many, many, many threads ago, before I was even here, someone proved that RM's chatboxes are exactly the same as that of the 2nd character. Brian had said that RM's chatboxes are similar to Fighter's. Maybe it's just bad wording, but that doesn't mean exactly the same.

I stand by my RM guess.

[MetalPsycho]

I stand by it being Fighter, only because it makes more sense for it to be him, since BM and RM have little to connect them other than their discussions about vs topics.

[BlackBelt McMonk]

Apparntly not all of us. Some nut jobs still think that that is Thief's voice.

Spoony bards.

:sweatdrop I never said I believed it. Just that I was toying with the idea. I know that Orange is most likely BM, doesn't mean I can't have fun trying to find ways for it to be Thief and Red Mage instead though.

...Or was that not specifically directed at me? Meh, oh well.

[UZ_White]

If we're only basing our theories on the color of the text boxes, I suppose that it HAS to be HKBM and RM, since those boxes have been used by those 2before. I doubt that text boxes are the core of the matter, although If it does turn out to be Red Mage, I suppose all the text box crap would be true after all, huh.

Of course, I can also use this post to throw out a bogus theory that isn't at all true. So, *Ahem...* IT'S THE SOUL OF BLACK BELT TALKING WITH BLACK MAGE!.

[Burkion]

:sweatdrop I never said I believed it. Just that I was toying with the idea. I know that Orange is most likely BM, doesn't mean I can't have fun trying to find ways for it to be Thief and Red Mage instead though.

...Or was that not specifically directed at me? Meh, oh well.

Notice the nut JOBS bit I added. Thusly, it was not specificly aimed at you, other wise it would have been far more insulting and would have made you cry multiple times. ...(Must...resist...Bundy Powers...)

[darkie]

IT'S THE SOUL OF BLACK BELT TALKING WITH BLACK MAGE!.


XD Good one!

Well, RM? Come on! You have to think about the chars, about their feelings and their relationship! RM is a total Exp Maniac in search of great powers and levels. The only time I remember see him in some serious mood was when they get to Dwarfland and Thief and BM where killing everyone in the way ( I laugh every time) .... He has some daddy issues and now has de Mimic power. Is the "Expert" in the group...he just changes his character sheet. He is a good Char, but things happen to main people: Black Mage, and Fighter. "Every thing that happens, happens to hurt Black Mage" Who had hurting him (MENTALLY) more than Fighter stupidity?? LOL

If it wasnt for fighter all the damn quest wouldnt have started in the first place. Just like they were saying before. "It started with BM and Fighter and will end that way"


Wouldnt you be sad to Bm just kill Fighter without some deep talking? Just Hadoken and there! Fighter dead. Bm had had chances to kill RM, and if it wasnt for the presence of White Mage, he would be dead. But Fighter no... "See? its not me! He never dies" I think the time had not come to the REAL battle between both and so they cant hurt each other like that... first, BM cant kill him, second, Fighter wont hurt his Best Buddy Eva xD .... Until the time comes.

[Mondt]

I just don't get what makes people think the text boxes might change. The only person that has happened to, if memory serves, it BM. And his mirror self. Everyone else has stayed the same for 700 comics, even through the class change.

Edit: The actual story of the comic points toward BM and Fighter, which is probably why most of you are saying that, and although I ----l-----could never find one of Fighter's textboxes, RMs being exactly the same kind of messes with the whole theory.

[Hyarion]

As I stated in my first post, the textboxes match Hell King BM and Red Mage. Fighter's are plain red without the gradient, and WM's are pink with a gradient.

[Burkion]

Actually Red Mages and Fighter's text boxes are pretty much the same.

I never noticed a differance...

[Hyarion]

Look at the first episode with Swordopolis (http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=011003); you can see Fighter's boxes are pure red.

[Burkion]

Actually, Fighter's box colors changed if you you say is true. Later on, when they're with the Other Warriors, it's red fading into white, just like the Mystery Red box.

[darkie]

Something about that line makes me shivers. "its not the question itself, but rather to question whether or not you had ANY CHOICE int the matter of becomming a swords man in the first place"

Destiny? Fate? Coincidence? Somehow I feel he answer a similar question.. "Do you believe there could have been any other outcome than this?"


Edit: burkion, do you have the number of that comic?

[Roy_D_Mylote]

First off, I present that White Mage is Chaos, because she creates the world and thus is God, and then she abdicates the position. This means the universe loses its sense of order since it has no-one to preserve it. Ergo, it is plunged into chaos as a direct result of White Mage. I further prestent that Sarda and Future Red Mage for reasons stated prievously in this thread. And it would really piss BM off if he wasn't Chaos, the Ultimate Evil, and Everything Works To Hurt Black Mage.

What it comes down to is, the person in the red box is Chaos. Because what I ask, is more chaotic than history just being a jumble of random events with no meaning whatever? Huh?

So White Mage kills the Light Warriors, except BM, who has turned really fuggin' powerful and thus the odd text box. Because that box is only ever used when BM is very, terribly strong. Right? So he and WM fight each other, BM possibly trying to wrest away the title of Lord of Evil from her.

Oh, and:
Now, what else than fate could cause Fighter voting off his "bestest buddy"?

You mean other than the fact that Fighter is a moron? That he probably thought he was voting IN FAVOR OF BM?


I would also like to add, as a postscript:

Dear Brian,

Are you ever going to tell us who it was, or is this just something you're doing because you long for the sweet embrace of death and are too afraid to end things yourself?

Love Roy.

[Burkion]

Fighter is not a moron. Jesus, if you read previous threads on this you'd see we already argued the point that he WASN'T to death already!

[Roy_D_Mylote]

Well, okay, you may have argued that, but that doesn't change the fact that he actually is.

[Burkion]

No. No he's not. He's the smartest of the Light Warriors.

[Mondt]

No. No he's not. He's the smartest of the Light Warriors.Look. He might be a genius, but it doesn't show but every 200 comics, on average. Alright? That's grounds for calling him a moron, in my opinion. If Stephen Hawking started acting retarded, than would people call him retarded? Probably, if he did it for long enough. Sure, he's still a genius, but he doesn't act it.

Edit: Also, Burk, could you please find that comic, like someone asked before? I'd like to see this, if I can't find it here in a second.

[Burkion]

Who cares what he 'acts' like. Vash acts like a hippy coward, and he BLEW A HOLE IN THE MOON.

[Mondt]

Who cares what he 'acts' like. Vash acts like a hippy coward, and he BLEW A HOLE IN THE MOON.Then people think he is a hippy coward.

[Burkion]

They think it, but it's not true.

Same goes here. People think Fighter's stupid. He's not. Why they don't understand...

A stupid person could never be able to use the Sword Chucks as awesomely as Fighter did.

A normal person could never come up with a weapon as awesome as the Sword chucks.

And a stupid person wouldn't have created sword chucks either: They would have made a type of sword that has two blades, one on either side. (If you get this reference, then you get ten Dark Side points)

[Mondt]

Also, Vash acted cool nearly every episode, if not all of them. Fighter has acted smart about... 5-6 times in 700 comics? He gets bursts of intelligence that help on occasions, if they aren't completely ignored because the other Light Warriors think he is retarded. No, do not link the comic wher ethey say he is the smartest because it's happenedaf ter that too, I think. His neivete overwhelms his intelligence, rendering him stupid. Just because he has a large IQ does not mean that he has to do smart things, it just means that he can do smart things. In short, a smart person who does stupid things is stupid, whether he can do advanced calculus at the age of 15 or not.

[Burkion]

But, that does not matter.

What matters is the fact that he CAN talk like the Red in 434, and HAS talked like him.

And all he really needs to do is to grow up...and I think seeing his 'bestest buddy' kill his other friends, including White Mage...

[Mondt]

And you have yet to prove that he can. I needs a link, since I couldn't find it. I mean, I dunno if it happens to you, but sometimes I argue a point a whole bunch, then realize that I screwed up. Hard. I'm not saying that you are, I'm just saying that it happens, which is why I'm asking for proof.

[Roy_D_Mylote]

And also, sword-chucks are not that awesome a weapon. They would make a great suicide tool, but weapon-wise...no. Also, dumb people can do martial arts-esque thing like wield weapons easily.

Yes a stupid person would have invented sword-chucks. We see that because, y'know, Fighter invented them. And a double-bladed sword is a much better weapon (you get to keep your hands) so it is a smarter invention.

[Inbred Chocobo]

Okay, after looking at everything, and thinking about it, this is what I have come up with. (also, I have no idea if this theory has already shown up.)

The two people are BM and Fighter. They are talking before the final battle, thing is, they are going to fight one another. BM has wanted power, he has wanted it so much. Finally, he comes to a point were he sacrifices WM for ultimate power. BM has already killed the rest of the light warriors, and now Fighter is the last one there. The reality of loosing his companions and the fact that he has to be the one to kill BM has caused him to enter this state of thinking. The blood on WM's robes suggest that they are having the battle at where the sacrifice was done, with her body still lying there.

[Heliomance]

Why does everyone think that BM kills WM to get real ultimate power?

[Burkion]

Easy: Sarda said that they would only gain their true power when and only when they sacrficed what they cared for the most.

What is the ONLY thing BM cares for?

[Heliomance]

Easy: Sarda said that they would only gain their true power when and only when they sacrficed what they cared for the most.

What is the ONLY thing BM cares for?
Easy, violence.
BM does not care about WM, he just wants in her pants.

[Hyarion]

Having checked the entirety of their journey to Gurgu when they first met up with the Other Warriors, I can say with confidence that at no time does Fighter use text boxes AT ALL, let alone graded ones.
Isn't there another section where they are with the Other Warriors, though?

AHA! Fighter using Graded Red Textboxes: http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=050416

However, they are NOT the same as the ones in 434, since they grade from red-to-white-to-red, whereas the ones on 434 just go from red-to-white.

[Waylander]

I always assumed that the text-boxes were the different parts of BM talking.

Ie. the Hell king version adn the sarcastic version maybe its just me. Besides its got that whole internal monologue feel to it from the background and also the whole BM being the only character you ever see

[Hyarion]

But that makes no sense. "Why did you do it like that?". Black Mage was not responsible in any way for the way in which he travelled to Gurgu, so he can't be talking to himself.

[darkie]

IM GOING CRAZY! *runs*

If I remeber well the first time this comic was discussed Brian stated some points like:

1.-That was really White Mage robes
2.- It has blood in it
3.- The two people speaking were in the ship in that moment
4.- One was using Hellking textboxes (I dont remember if he confirmed they were BM boxes)
5.- (....I cant remember more!)

Ok. Lets stick with the facts. Can someone help with this? Thanks Hyarion! I was hoping to see that!

By the way, White Mage really Could be a light warrior. If you see the "real lightwarriors" they are a Knight, a Red Wizard, a Ninja aaand.... a White Wizard. Do you see a Black Wizard nearby? XD

[Hyarion]

Ahhh trickery, thy name is Brian. Here (http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=050816)'s a comic with RM using the same pure Red textboxes that Fighter uses in his conversation with Swordopolis (http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=011003).
Sooooo, fighter has used pure Red textboxes, and ones that grade from red-to-white-to-red, while RM has used pure Red texboxes, and ones that grade from red-to-white, just like in 434. But since the textboxes change so much, I think we can now safely say that they are no guarantee at all of who is talking. Except that it almost certainly isn't WM, since as Brian said: "Pink isn't red."

EDIT: On second thoughts, RM's boxes are a darker Red.

EDIT again: Also, RM using another graded Red textbox, but darker than the one in 434. http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=050823

EDIT some more: RM using the same textboxes as in 434: http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=050924

AND: White mage's text boxes are graded pink. (http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=051110)

[Mac]

By the way, White Mage really Could be a light warrior. If you see the "real lightwarriors" they are a Knight, a Red Wizard, a Ninja aaand.... a White Wizard. Do you see a Black Wizard nearby? XD

for the love of Magus. White Wizard is a MAN

[Inbred Chocobo]

Yes, the White Wizard in the game was a man, but that doesn't mean anything in the comic. The Light Warriors in the comic didn't exactly go with the game's new sprites, so White Mage could get a different sprite herself. In reality she could really do all of what you guys think she could do without ever becoming a Light Warrior anyway.

[YF-23]

Yes, the White Wizard in the game was a man, but that doesn't mean anything in the comic. The Light Warriors in the comic didn't exactly go with the game's new sprites, so White Mage could get a different sprite herself. In reality she could really do all of what you guys think she could do without ever becoming a Light Warrior anyway.
If she was to become a LW and then get a class change (for whatever reason) she could have the Wonderswan White Wizard sprite. Seeing as she's "God" and all.XD After all, BM did say before the destruction of Pontera that gods are 16-bit.;)

[Red Dragon 50]

Hmmm...

to mee it seems like Hell King BM and Red Mage.

I don't know when it'll be revealed but I'm sure it'll be at the end of the comic.

[Mac]

Yes, the White Wizard in the game was a man, but that doesn't mean anything in the comic. The Light Warriors in the comic didn't exactly go with the game's new sprites, so White Mage could get a different sprite herself. In reality she could really do all of what you guys think she could do without ever becoming a Light Warrior anyway.


I am only saying that because someone suggested that the real Light Warriors are from the future.

[blackwaltzomega]

XD Good one!

Well, RM? Come on! You have to think about the chars, about their feelings and their relationship! RM is a total Exp Maniac in search of great powers and levels. The only time I remember see him in some serious mood was when they get to Dwarfland and Thief and BM where killing everyone in the way ( I laugh every time) .... He has some daddy issues and now has de Mimic power. Is the "Expert" in the group...he just changes his character sheet. He is a good Char, but things happen to main people: Black Mage, and Fighter. "Every thing that happens, happens to hurt Black Mage" Who had hurting him (MENTALLY) more than Fighter stupidity?? LOL

If it wasnt for fighter all the damn quest wouldnt have started in the first place. Just like they were saying before. "It started with BM and Fighter and will end that way"


Wouldnt you be sad to Bm just kill Fighter without some deep talking? Just Hadoken and there! Fighter dead. Bm had had chances to kill RM, and if it wasnt for the presence of White Mage, he would be dead. But Fighter no... "See? its not me! He never dies" I think the time had not come to the REAL battle between both and so they cant hurt each other like that... first, BM cant kill him, second, Fighter wont hurt his Best Buddy Eva xD .... Until the time comes.

Well, the problem I find is that Fighter says smart things sometimes, but that's a ****ing conversation! Fighter cannot say a smart thing twice in a row, and still doesn't know what he's talking about. I'm just saying, Fighter, even disillusioned with BM, would not try to talk like that with him.

RM has views similar to that on the universe. I don't have the link, but when Theif talks about taxes, he goes off on a rant about the order of the universe. He actually thinks about it, although in a very roundabout, stupid way.

However, let's compare:

-Fighter, moron or random genius, won't get smarter. He resists change no matter what he sees.

-WM doesn't respect BM enough to talk to him like that.

-Thief...doesn't care about any of that crap, and BM wouldn't waste his breath on him.

-Sarda would try to **** up casualty to get away, not talk.

-RM, however, assiming he can mature as people claim FIGHTER of all people can...think about it. He is the only one besides BM that thinks about the universe in that way...and if you say Fighter can get smart/serious, wouldn't the same hold true for RM?

It'd have to be one of them overcoming their character flaws, but I also rais a point: Fighter wouldn't think BM in pain was funny at Gurgu. RM would.

[Mac]

Think of it this way. It could be the good(in relative terms) and evil in Black Mage talking. Or perhaps maybe Swordopolis/Fighter and Hell King. I know that is the text style for Dr Swordopolis

[Frylord]

I agree with blackwaltzomega. It seems to RM. The manner of speaking indicates it's RM, because reason number 1: Fighter is too stupid to talk like that for an entire episode. #2, Thief would whisper things and trick BM. #3, WM hates his guts, and #4. Sarda would just do a organs removing spell again. Wait, I just had a crazy idea! It's Onion Kid.

[Mondt]

Here's (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showthread.php?t=12364&highlight=%22episode+434%22) three (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showthread.php?t=12735&highlight=%22episode+434%22) threads. (http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showthread.php?t=12238&highlight=%22episode+434%22)

All on this subject. Also, two quotes found in one of shiney's posts in one.

Wait, Swifters thinks that the "Red Speaker" can't be Fighter because the speech is too intelligent/wise?

Like I say at convention panels all the time: "Everyone thinks Fighter is the dumbest character, but he's probably the smartest."brian all but confirmed that the voice was fighter. He did not outright say it was fighter, but he posted twice that while people suggest fighter is the dumbest, he's really the smartest.Just putting these up for reference, and so that things that have been suggested might not be re-suggested.

If there are others, somebody want to post them? Y'know what? I'll just find more...

[Frylord]

Well, Brian loves the parts were the joke is on the READER. So he might just be messing with you.

[Hyarion]

http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=040501
Red Mage on fate.

[Roy_D_Mylote]

I still believe it's Red Mage talking, because he's really the only character that the comic never focuses on. You've got Black Mage who's the unofficial star, and Fighter, who's the happy sidekick. They're the main characters of almost every adventure. Thief has that whole thing when they were in Elfland, being the prince and overthrowing the chancellor. The closest thing Red Mage has had character development-wise is the crossdressing Daddy hates him thing, which was just one of Thief's scams. RM needs something.

[YF-23]

There is still time to develop RM's character though. Think; we may still not be halfway through.

[Roy_D_Mylote]

What I'm sayin', though, is that in seven-hundred odd episodes RM has done nothing except make faulty plans, piss off BM, and occasionaly do something right. Everyone else gets cool stuff. RM is the poor, neglected middle child.

'Cept he did get that column, but I don't think that should count.

[BlackMageFF1]

It's so obvious, judging by what BM says in the last panel, I think it's BM's "good" side (red) and BM's evil side (orange) speaking. When you read it carefully it does sound like someone is talking to himself.

He says "I'm... going to think it's hilarious" and then says "I'll kill them all", and then "WE can laugh about it", if he will have killed everyone, and we implys plural, who else could laugh at it besides, him, himself, and he? This is further proven by him using singular (I'm) and plural (we) interchangebly. Also, who else but BM would think the Gurgu incident was funny?

I have always thought that this was the case and always will, you were too busy analyizing the colored boxes and never looked at what BM says in the LAST panel. If you read the boxes again under this logic they start to make more sense. They're not really that significant, it's just what BM predicts will happen when he kills everyone. Nothing more. It's not like Brian to do any significant foreshadowing anyway without making it obvious.

[Roy_D_Mylote]

But why would BM's evil side ask about how they did it going to Gurgu? No part of BM had anything to do with him being stuck on the windshield.

And they could all laugh at his misfortune before he kills everyone.

[Inbred Chocobo]

See, you have the we and I thing interchangable thing wrong (at least in my opinion.).

See when BM says we, he is refering that he and everyone he is about to kill is going to laugh about it. If he said we when he is going to kill them all anyway, you would have a problem because RM and Fighter and Theif will certainly not help BM kill themselves. (Maybe Fighter is the exception, but whatever.)

There is also the first panel of the comic. He is clearly speaking to someone else. Look in the background too. What is that exactly? A crash landing site with smoke pouring? Certainly not a place you would expect someone to confront themselves in. The next panel's background reflects on BM's evil side obviously, and the next panel's background is a flood of light. Seriously, that has to be reflecting the other speaker, and that light is the last thing I would use to represent BM. In fact, that light gives me a feeling that it isn't RM either, so it has to be WM or Fighter. But in the next panel its WM's robe with blood, which gives the feeling that WM was sacrificed for power.

[Roy_D_Mylote]

So...crash sight? The Death Trap crashes and everyone dies in the crash, 'cept BM and whoever the hell the other person is. Maybe BM caused the crash to kill everyone?

[Hyarion]

I just want to reiterate my earlier statement for all the people who believe it's BM talking to himself:

"One last thing. Do you remember when we went to Gurgu?"
"Yes."
"Why did you do it like that?"

Black Mage was not responsible in any way for the way in which he travelled to Gurgu, so he can't be talking to himself.

[BlackMageFF1]

I will always think of my theory as correct until the real answer comes out, which, according to my theory, will never be revealed because it's really not that important, so the point is moot.

I have an answer: BM's evil side asks "Why did you do it like that?" simply because he was asking about something BM's "good" side made BM do at Gurgu.

[Roy_D_Mylote]

But they were talking about the travelling to Gurgu. And BM's good side would not refer to himself as "we".

[Meister]

Ooookay, post limit. Long ago, in fact. Might I add on a personal note that it doesn't seem like these little speculative chats bring up any exciting new theories at all?