ICO {SPOILERS! I Repeat SPOILERS!}

[Arlia Janet]

I just finished Ico (the spiritual father of Shadow of the Colossus), and I have to talk about the ending.

The thing about these games is that they are so open to interpretation that it will drive you mad. Apart from the Dark Queen being the easiest boss in video game history, the ending was very interesting to me.

So I want to hear your interpretations of the ending and such.

I think that Ico was killed by the queen. I've seen the ending sequence where you run along the beach and find Yorda and she says "I love you" in Japanese. Why do I think they are both dead? Yorda was incapable of leaving the palace. That's why she fell down when you tried to pull her through the closing gate, and that is why she collapsed when you finally got her through it. The only way for the two of them to be together was to meet in paradise, and that's what that ending scene is showing.


<Shadow of the Colossus Spoilers Ahead>

Also, how does Ico relate to Shadow? I know they aren't direct sequels and prequels (the temple in Shadow was way too small to be the one in ICO unless the temple's size and strength grows with that of the queen). The general consensus is that Shadow is a prequel to ICO. The girl from Shadow could have easily been the first reincarnation of the queen, and we all know the relationship between the queen and the boys with horns. Dormin had two voices, a man and a woman. Dormin's influence through Wander and the girl from Shadow leads to the setup of why they put Ico in the temple in the first place.

That's all I got right now. I did a piss poor job of putting my thoughts into words, but I'm sure I'll be more eloquent if I can talk with someone about it... so discuss.

[MuMu]

What people say about SoTC and ICO is in the end, the Wanderer is "killed" and reborn as a baby. If you look closer, you'll notice the baby has horns. So, he is supposed to be the first Horned People in history. I don't know much more since I haven't played ICO >_>

[Mirai Gen]

Also, people speculate that Mono (the dead girl in SotC) is the Dark Queen, because of Wander and the horns as a child.

They have a slight visual similarity too, but that might just be the 'dark' and kinda 'moody' atomosphere of the game.

[Sky Warrior Bob]

unless the temple's size and strength grows with that of the queen.

I did come up with a theory to explain this, at least to myself, but I'm not sure how correct I am.

Maybe I'm just seeing things, but there was at least one place in Shadow that I could've sworn I've seen in Ico. Anyway, the theory is similar to what you suggest, the size of the temple does reflect Dormin's power (whom I assume eventually possesses Mono, whom becomes the at least the first Dark Queen). Dormin's power, was scattered in the form of the Colossi, so likewise his castle was scattered.

The castle in Ico is starting to fall apart because Dark Queen Dormin is near the end of her life, and needs to possess Yorda to reinvigorate herself. However, at the height of Dark Queen Dormin's power, I suspect the castle was complete.

Of course, the second part of this theory involves reincarnation of at least Wander. The thing is, I think Wander might have been reincarnated far more times, as the story of Ico suggests that each of Wander's reincarnations are sacrificed at an early age, hence the numberous tombs. The Dark Queen could be Mono herself, and Yorda is only her first reincarnation (or something like that as Mono isn't completely dead just yet, call her a reincarnation clone).

SWB

[Arlia Janet]

What people say about SoTC and ICO is in the end, the Wanderer is "killed" and reborn as a baby. If you look closer, you'll notice the baby has horns. So, he is supposed to be the first Horned People in history. I don't know much more since I haven't played ICO >_>

You don't have to look closely. They're quite obvious.

I was thinking that since Dormin isn't a he as much as a they, Dormin possesses both Mono and Wander. This bond is why the queen demands that all horned boys are killed. It gives her power. The dark queen in Ico can't be the same iteration of the reincarnation cycle as Mono. In Ico, you have to kill all the dark spirits popping out of the tombs of previous Icos.

But what about the ending of Ico? What do you think happened to the kid?

[Sky Warrior Bob]

Well its fairly hard to guess what happened, since you've got so little information to go on. I don't think Ico is dead, but then again I have a hard time with Yorda just being on the beach like that.

I suppose it could be a dream sequence, but that's so unsatisfying.

Its really hard to work out what could happened, as its been so long since I beat said game. Wikipedia says: Ico awakens, he is washed upon a beach. He travels along the coast he finds Yorda dressed in white like when they first met, yet her body has more color then her original extremly pale skin. As Ico approaches her, her fingers curl and she slowly opens her eyes.

But what that could mean is beyond me. It might help if the finger curling could be described to me, as that might be a symbolic gesture that the text here doesn't convey.

Oh, and apparently guesses that Shadow is a prequel to Ico are right on the money, as Ico's entry in Wikipedia states that On March 9, 2006, Fumito Ueda, a lead designer for both video games confirmed that "Shadow of the Colossus" is indeed a prequel to "Ico" and that both take place in the same universe.

SWB

[Mirai Gen]

I was thinking that since Dormin isn't a he as much as a they, Dormin possesses both Mono and Wander. This bond is why the queen demands that all horned boys are killed. It gives her power. The dark queen in Ico can't be the same iteration of the reincarnation cycle as Mono. In Ico, you have to kill all the dark spirits popping out of the tombs of previous Icos.
Listen closely before you fight the final Colossus, Malus, then afterwards. Dormin's voice loses the female edge to it.

I'm not 100% on what the hell this is supposed to mean, but fuck, it's cool.

[Sky Warrior Bob]

Just replayed the ending of Ico, and I noticed something. While the castle is crumbling to nothing, the door guardians start to glow intensily. Now I'm not sure if this is enough explaination to justify Yorda being washed up on the beach, with some skin color, but if I knew more about the nature of the castle, maybe it'd be a start.

I mean, we assume the castle was built by the Dark Queen, but it could have just as well been a prison. I mean, why else would the mystic sword exist? I mean, its bad manners to create something that could kill you. I mean, if all she wanted to do was create something so visitors could open the door, you'd think she could've made something a bit more tame.

I'm not sure, but the scene with the bridge suggests to me that the castle was preventing Yorda from leaving because she had too much of the Dark Queen in her already. Thus, why it was so painful to open the big doors, and why she got zapped when crossing the bridge.

SWB

[Solid Snake]

ICO and Shadow are two of my favorite games of all-time. Both punch you right in the heart, and I love every emotionally ravishing second of it. Final Fantasy could learn a lesson or two about truly impactful character development -- and how it's found not in dialogue but in the subtle layers of relational growth -- from these games.

Anywhoo I don't believe that ICO and Yorda die at the end of the game. (And I'm not going to bother spoiler-coloring this information because the topic itself quite blatantly mentions the prevalance of spoilers.) The greatest proof I've heard in regards to the "ICO and Yorda are still alive" argument is the presence of the watermelon, which ICO and Yorda can consume should you find it. If they were in heaven, they wouldn't be sharing a bite to eat. Or so I would imagine.

But the creators of ICO and Shadow did mention that Shadow was supposed to be a considerably darker game than ICO; and if Ico and Yorda were to die at the end of ICO then I wouldn't classify ICO as having a happier ending. That's as close as you'll get to your "proof", though. The creators really love the series' ambiguity and they'll prefer to leave the interpretations to us.

"Save Me" -- the OC Remix -- is absolutely gorgeous, BTW.

[Mirai Gen]

"Save Me" -- the OC Remix -- is absolutely gorgeous, BTW.
Yeah, I always liked that mix.

"Icon" felt kinda...wrong.

[Sky Warrior Bob]

The greatest proof I've heard in regards to the "ICO and Yorda are still alive" argument is the presence of the watermelon, which ICO and Yorda can consume should you find it.

Watermelon? What watermelon?

Edit: Oh, is it only in the European version? Can anyone describe the new cutscene in detail?

SWB

[Solid Snake]

Nah, I've found the watermelon on the beach with my good ol' U.S.A. version.

But procuring it before you find Yorda is totally optional. Just adds a new cutscene among the credits.

[Mirai Gen]

What's funny, is how utterly enigmatic the game series truly is. I mean, look at us, we're taking the watermelon into some sort of pseudo-spiritual deeper meaning.

[Sky Warrior Bob]

I beat the game again, just to find the stinking watermelon. Still could not find it. Am I just looking in the wrong places, or is it because I'm using the original release of Ico & the rest of you are using Greatest Hits or something a bit more recent.

SWB

[Solid Snake]

If I remember correctly, it's well hidden in a corner on the opposite side of the map (away from the general direction you're encouraged to go to, to find Yorda.) But it's definitely out there. You can look up an FAQ at Gamefaqs (like I did) for a better sense of where the watermelon is, but I can guarentee it can be found in a U.S. version (at least in the Greatest Hits version, which is what I own.)