Interval Between MGS1 & MGS2 Speculation

[Flare]

I recently played through Metal Gear Solid, Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes, and Metal Gear Solid 2 (All within a 24 hour period. Yes, I know, I'm insane and have no life.). The question came to my mind that they don't really explain what happened between Snake and Meryl in between the Shadow Moses and Tanker incidents. I believe there was some comment by Snake about not wanting to get involved with another woman in reference to Olga, but that's it. So, what happened? Any specualtion?

[MuMu]

As far as we've seen, Meryl is still alive in MGS 4 so it may be explained there.

[The Wandering God]

Which I must say, seeing her made me ludicrously happy. As up until then, I was of the idea that she dies. :(

But thinking back on it, in MGS2, "Plisken" points at his bandanna and say "infinite ammo", so I guess that was a subtle nod to her being alive.

Of course, she could die in the next game, but we'll see.

The Wandering God

[Flare]

Good point... I never thought of those two occurances. However, there is a bit of discrepancy. What if you decide to get Otacon and the Stealth Camo in MGS1 inastead of Meryl and the Infinite Ammo?

[Sky Warrior Bob]

I submit to you, that MGS2 was intentionally ambigous about the fate of Meryl. It didn't matter if you saved her or not in MGS1, as both scenarios could've worked.

So Meyrl's absence in the game goes unanswered. Of course, I really can't believe that Philanthropy would be a UN recognised group if Snake & Otacon were its only members, so since MGS4 establishes that Meryl is alive, she might just be working for them on another assignment.

Stealth missions for Snake being typically solo missions, Meryl's absence isn't all that shocking. Snake has worked alone in MG1, MG2 & MGS (as well as other non-game missions that are mentioned in MGS), so why should this mission be an exception to that rule?

One thought that did occur to me, is the possiblity that even in the Meryl dies scenario, she might not be actually dead. Given the cold conditions, and the fact that a bunch of bombs are coming Snake's way, its entirely likely that Snake just might not have been able to find Meryl's pulse.

SWB

[PyrosNine]

No, the strongest reason for why Meryl has to survive, is that in MGS, unless you're an evil boss who's in Snake's way, you usually tend to survive and make repeated appearances. Hell, the Ninja Fox guy could still be alive. He could still be pieced back together.

Big Boss himself has beaten off death repeatedly, even when he was old and gray. I mean, in order to be in a MGS game, you have to have the ability to die and come back.

Also, the really sexy people always survive. Which is why Liquid Snake survived for being british.

[Mirai Gen]

Also, the really sexy people always survive. Which is why Liquid Snake survived for being british.
Damn.

Hey, Rai? You might want to have a look at this. I think this crazy theory might work.

I also back that claim up, mostly since Snake didn't die in MGS2 and was BLATANTLY Plissken. (I'm not labelling it in spoiler text because if you look at him for two seconds, you can tell.) He didn't die, even as badly as Kojima wanted people to belive it.

As for Meryl dying, nah. The part of MGS that was about her everyone pretty much did the 'right' way, and those who didn't probably don't care enough.

It's sorta like Magus dying. Yeah, he can, but who wants him to? He's too cool for that.

[Sky Warrior Bob]

No, the strongest reason for why Meryl has to survive, is that in MGS, unless you're an evil boss who's in Snake's way, you usually tend to survive and make repeated appearances. Hell, the Ninja Fox guy could still be alive. He could still be pieced back together.

Snake Vs. Pancake man? Grey Fox, short of prequels is very much dead. Of course, with the Cyber-Ninja, it really doesn't matter who's actually behind the mask. So in one sense, they did find a way to keep him around. I just wish Raiden's face was covered just like the MGS/MGS2 ninja. Raiden's current appearance is just plain creepy (almost looks like a goth), and the glowing red eyeball thing was fairly neat looking.

SWB

[Lockeownzj00]

I don't have a beef with Raiden. Voice actor? Bad. Long hair, blonde? Oh shit, it must mean he can't fight.

You'd probably like The Document of Metal Gear Solid 2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Document_of_Metal_Gear_Solid_2), which explains a shitload of backstory on this sort of thing.

Now please, please, please, please tell me you've played Metal Gear Solid 3.

[Flare]

PyrosNine, that simply isn't possible.

1. Unfortunately, there wasn't anything left of Fox to revive.

2. It would totally kill his awesomeness if they brought him back.

3. People would stop playing if they brought a dead person back. It's MGS, not a soap opra.

[MuMu]

Grey Wasn't a machine, to be brought back anytime, he was still human so = Dead.

Besides there is Raiden already...

3. People would stop playing if they brought a dead person back. It's MGS, not Resident Evil.

Fix'd for truth.

[PyrosNine]

PyrosNine, that simply isn't possible.

3. People would stop playing if they brought a dead person back.

....Liquid?

It's MGS, not a soap opra.

...You're saying this about a game with so much dialogue, plot twists, backstabs, conspiracies, people dying, amnesia, colorful characters, and main characters going "What? You're my (insert obscure relation here)"?

The game is totally a soap opera, given the soap is laced with bullets and drugs.

[Mirai Gen]

3. People would stop playing if they brought a dead person back. It's MGS, not Dragon Ball Z.
Fixed, again.

Liquid Snake's return was different, though - he was genetically engineered, so he's got certain 'leeway' when it comes to breaking physics, especially 'living on through his arm'.

It's still a little wierd, though.

[Mannix]

Big Boss himself has beaten off death repeatedly.

Sorry, but that's getting sig'd.

Also, I forget where I read this, but doesn't Snake make a comment in either a game or one of the trailers that he and Meryl lived together in Alaska but it didn't work out because he drank too much?


Edit: From Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_Snake#Shadow_Moses_Island_incident)- 'After the incident, Snake went into deep hiding with Meryl and no longer saw any reason to risk his life for his government again. They eventually parted ways (perhaps leading to Snake's chronic alcoholism "I was held up in Alaska, drinking too much.")'
It doesn't say where they got that quote, so I'd take it with a grain of salt, but I find wiki to be generally accurate.

[Mirai Gen]

After the incident, Snake went into deep hiding with Meryl and no longer saw any reason to risk his life for his government again. They eventually parted ways (perhaps leading to Snake's chronic alcoholism "I was held up in Alaska, drinking too much.")'
It doesn't say where they got that quote, so I'd take it with a grain of salt, but I find wiki to be generally accurate.
It's never been confirmed about him living with Meryl, but he did say that quote, in MGS2, after Raiden finds out (GASP) Plissken is Snake.

[Cybren]

you can't say people coming back from the dead is over the ridiculous limit of a metal gear game.
I give you...
Big Boss.
Gray Fox.
Liquid Snake.
Solid Snake (okay, the player figured that one out quick)
Vamp

Besides, I think anything is an improvement over the exploding bosses of MGS3

[greed]

Sploding Bosses rule!

Though speaking of MGS3 there is some explanation for "Liquid Ocelot" in that game. SPOILERS OF THE FIRST DEGREE The Sorrow is Ocelot's father ,and the Sorrow was able to communicate and command the spirits of the dead. Ocelot obviously inherited this power , leaving him vulnerable to the spirits of the dead, which allowed Liquid to use his presumably stronger will and physical connection to Ocelot, to break Ocelots mind and take over his body, possibly a sort of karma for the Sorrow's control of the dead, that his son would become nothing but the puppet of a dead man. END OF MAJOR SPOILERS FROM MGS3

I reckon we may see Big Boss at least in(possibly playable) flashbacks in the next game though, because MGS is really just an awesome videogame soap opera with brains and a lot of killing,guns and robots, and a willingness to poke fun at itself.

[Sky Warrior Bob]

I reckon we may see Big Boss at least in(possibly playable) flashbacks in the next game though, because MGS is really just an awesome videogame soap opera with brains and a lot of killing,guns and robots, and a willingness to poke fun at itself.

Well, I don't necessarily think that you'll be able to play Big Boss as part of MGS4. It'd just seem too out of context, and wouldn't have anything to do with the game's story.

However, I can confirm that you'll be able to play as Big Boss again. Apparently, they are making a new game for the PSP called Metal Gear Solid: Portable Ops (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_Gear_Solid:_Portable_Ops). In it, you'll play as Big Boss, and unlike the Acid series, it'll be like classic MGS.

SWB

[greed]

Well, I don't necessarily think that you'll be able to play Big Boss as part of MGS4. It'd just seem too out of context, and wouldn't have anything to do with the game's story.
SWB

Sorry I should have been clearer I meant a flashback which is either a cutscene where you watch or an actual playable sequence where you play as a young Solid Snake, that features Big Boss either in cutscenes or as an opponent. It could work just before or after the "suicide" scene.

And yeah, knew about Portable Ops, nearly reason enough to get a PSP, just gonna wait for a significant price drop and some more interesting games.

[MuMu]

Well, in This (http://worldps2.free.fr/galerie/images/Metal%20Gear%20Solid%204/artworks/mgs4_artwork_persos03.jpg) pic, There is a person that looks like Big Boss(The Middle One). Ressurrected, Cloned or something like this...?

[Mirai Gen]

That's Old Snake if I remember rightly. Watch the trailer and compare the two.

And so long as we're talking about that, hey Greed, that still doesn't explain why Ocelot said, "Hey, you know what would be a great idea, is for me to surgically fuse Liquid's arm to myself. That way, my bizzare psychic talk-to-the-dead powers can bring back someone I hardly like, and he can take over my body on regular occasion!"

It was pretty weak. Especially considering I don't think he knows he has Sorrow's power.

[greed]

Agreed, how he got the arm was pretty weak, considering you'd think it having Foxdie in it would deter him for asking for it, but there is at least some explanation for the possession after Ocelot got the arm attatched.

I suppose if I was Liquid I would have a failsafe plan set up, and if he knew about the Sorrow (possible considering how much he knew about Big Boss), he may have set up hypnotic suggestion, or something with Psycho Mantis to get Ocelot to save the arm, but yeah so far it's a pretty weak point in the story.

[The Wandering God]

More likely than not, Hideo will explain it in MGS4. After all, Ocelot/Liquid is the main villain. And if the previous games are any indication, we can expect an extended dialogue about who he is, what he is, why he is, and what he had for breakfast. XD

I dunno though, I think Ocelot is cooler than Liquid. All Liquid is good at is not dying.

The Wandering God

[greed]

Agreed, Ocelot is a better villain, just cause he's such a bastard, no redeeming features whatsoever. I love it when you really want the villain to DIE, too few games do this. One of the big bonuses of the MGS series is you've got Ocelot to HATE, and in the one game where he's somewhat likeable, you get Volgin the sadistic, omnicidal rapist.

Hmm this has gotten somewhat of the topic anyone know how/if we should try and get the topic renamed "MGS Spec" or something?

[Mirai Gen]

Nah, the topic has it's point made. It'd just be more work for the Mods.

What I love about Ocelot is he has that Beast Wars Megatron feel to him. It's not just that he's a prick, he's a really successful arrogant prick. In praticular the showdown between him and Fortune in MGS2.

"There's no fortune around you. It's all technology. You played the part well. You loved the drama."

The mocking tone of voice...oh man.

[greed]

What I love about Ocelot is he has that Beast Wars Megatron feel to him. It's not just that he's a prick, he's a really successful arrogant prick. In praticular the showdown between him and Fortune in MGS2.

"There's no fortune around you. It's all technology. You played the part well. You loved the drama."

The mocking tone of voice...oh man.

That's a great, if somewhat unexpected analogy, and you're right him being an arrogant, successful bastard, is what makes everyone hate him, and is probably what makes his horrible if at the moment weak plot-wise, end work because we want him to not just go down but to go down horribly.
If he was a general failure with few successes, he'd be likeable, despite being a prick, just like Blackadder.

Though you got to admit, having his mind raped by Liquid is just about as fitting a end for Ocelot, as you could hope for.

[Lockeownzj00]

But MGS3 made me hate him less and sympathize with him more. Can't change that.

And I don't think the arm is a weak point. He has to have a reason--Ocelot rarely makes these kinds of mistakes; he's actually one of the highest up in this ladder of conspiratorialnissitude. It probably gave him some power or helped him do something--perhaps he miscalculated, yes, but he has a reason.

[Steel Shadow]

Well, maybe he didn't like only having one arm. You don't get more quality gun shooting arms than the arm of a man specificaly breed with the strongest fighting genes known to man.

[greed]

I think Steel Shadow's got it, you would want a genetic super soldier's(remember the ending phone call of MGS, Ocelot knew Liquid was better than even Snake genetically, even though Liquid didn't) arm as a replacement if you lost yours.:)
Much better explanation than my convuluted theory about why, involving hypnotism and Psycho Mantis.:sweatdrop

Kudos

[Mirai Gen]

Keep in mind, even after Ninja sliced his arm off, he was still a total badass. Sure, he couldn't do that double-tap thing he did in the Big Shell mission in MGS2 with just one arm...but still. I doubt his reason to allow another person into his head simply was, "I need another arm."

[Magus]

He probably didn't expect it to happen, after all, it's not like he knows the Sorrow and the Joy are his parents or he'd not be too liking of the Patriots, would he?

There is obviously an old naked man in that original MGS4 pic alongside an obvious old Snake who most people think is Big Boss rescussitated, so I wouldn't put it out of the loop completely.