Shadowrun Discussion Part 2

[Forever Zero]

*Cracks finger* Alright, basically I've got some questions to ask as well, since this is my first RP, I want some feedback so I can try to make something everyone will enjoy. First, I would suggest reading Minkus' posts on page 1 and 2 of the first Shadowrun Discussion. I will probably repeat some stuff he said in my own terms, but right now I will pull a direct quote.

It WOULD be possible to do a SR RP, but everyone going into it would have to accept 3 very important things.
1) You ARE gutter trash. Runners usually lose all forms of valid ID. You HAVE no rights. You can go to the local Stuff-n-Shack for a brewski, but you can't lodge a formal complaint about anything. Similarly, you will be treated as such. Only one of the characters I've ever seen "get caught" has been alive. The rest have gone out in a blaze of glory. Think about the "Matrix Revolutions" walker scene, or any other last-stand-no-way-in-Hades-I'm-going-to-live scene. That's how many Runners are.
2) A stray bullet/simple magic spell can kill you. Allow me to reiterate. No bullet dodging. You wanna survive a shotgun, wear bodyarmor. A pistol wound can kill, and it's possible, according to the rules, for a sniper rifle to do NO damage, but if a bullet hits you, and you "roleplay" shrugging it off, you better have good reason. No stupid "Heh. I'm immune to missiles" lines.
3) You most likely, if you are a Runner, either know your party/team before the game starts, or they're a friend-of-a-friend, and there fore can be trusted on credit until they show themselves capable, or they die.

And now I have my questions...

1. How complicated a game would you be interested in playing? Shadowrun has lot's of die rolls, rules, and sub-worlds. I will not be making everyone else do die rolls, and I plan on just letting everyone RP as normal on Forums, but the Shadowrun world is extremely deep, and I want to know if I should introduce things like The Astral Plane, The Matrix (No, it isn't like the movie version), Riggers, Cyberware, and other things, or if I should just funnel them down into extremely generalized things. (Many of you don't know what I'm talking about, but I'll explain if people are interested.)

2. Would you want to put a long term commitment into an RP? The normal format is get mission from Jhonson, complete mission, make some money, spend money for better stuff and to support lifestyle, and get more missions. The other format I can think up is a standard story format, with buildups, big battles, and an overall resolution. I will have a resolution at one point either way, but I want to know if you want to build up your characters from rookies to expert Shadowrunners then take on the big bad guy, or just jump right in to the story and ignore the buildup.

Those are probably my main questions. Depending on how people answer them, I may have other questions, or I may put up a sign up, but I want to know what other people think before I just put up an RP that is going to be most likely different from the norm.

[Forever Zero]

Please, don't all speak up at once...

I guess the other option is I'll just put up a sign-up and people can join if they want to...

[Dante]

I'm good with commitment, but I can't post often, or at normal hours, given that my schedule is very annoying.

[Truce]

I'm good with commitment too, and I'll warn you if I can't post for a while.

This'll just need some time to all take in. Like you've stated, this is a complicated game.

[stuper of thought]

which version of the rules would be used?

[Forever Zero]

Third edition rules with no additional books used, but I will modify it to allow for Forum play.

[stuper of thought]

would it be a good idea to for everybody to use a character sheet for the forum?

[Forever Zero]

I don't know about a full character sheet. I want to allow people that don't know a ton about Shadowrun to join, and there are lots of things, mostly gear, cyberware, and magic, that are all chosen at the start, but that are also pretty long lists that would take a long time to post. I will most likely come up with an easier sign-up list that will have some basic stats and info like attributes, and I may stretch some rules so I don't have to have any long lists of stats or items, but if you have a full fledged character sheet, you could post that once I have a sign up thread.

[stuper of thought]

i was wondering cause i had a couple of character sheets for one of the editions but i have no idea what happened to them. oh well, i guess i could try to find the shadowrun book that my bro got a few years ago and see if it's the third edtion rule book.

[Forever Zero]

Alright, learned all I need to know, and for this RP I'll probably use the standard Shadowrun character creation rules to make a character. I'll explain them, and probably post an official start up tomarrow for anyone intereted.

[IHateMakingNames]

Is anything being planned to prevent "Person A shots Person B, problem solved"?

[Forever Zero]

Well, for the RP I could always ask that people instead of saying, "I point my gun and shoot the troll dead," they say something like, "I point my gun and open fire on the troll." Then leave it open for me to say if the troll was killed or not. Fighting isn't the primary part of Shadowrun, although it is a major part, so it shouldn't be a big problem. Also, stealth is the preferred method for getting the job done, and if there is fighting, it is usually while trying to escape an ambush or guards that have discovered the runners and tripped an alarm. Also, if somene says something crazy, like someone with a skill of 1 in pistols (I will have skills and points in this RP, but it shouldn't slow it down any, just make for a more detailed sign-up) makes a head shot from across the room and kills a heavily armed and armored guard, I'll say that's nearly impossible and they need to change their post.

[Minkus]

(sorry for lack of recent posts, Fam/friends from out of town came in for Christmas...Merry Christmas to all!)

Count me in for any SR you need. I can send you a prototype char-sheet if you want, or whatever is needed.

In an RP SR-style, I prefer being combat-style types, but I can Rig' if you need, and I have fun with Decking, but those'll be...interesting to work with for an RP...especially the Decking....Oh well, what else is a challenge good for? I have a problem with Mages, as I never fully grasped Magic, and usually left that to my cousin, who knows the rules beyond reason. Well, that's Hyperbole, but you get the picture.

If you want, I can draw up a quick history for reader's perusal, but it won't be anything too spectacular.

[Forever Zero]

I plan on using the Chicago 2050 time frame, because that is pretty chaotic and can give an overall goal to the RPers, so I have the history I need for that and will put it in the sign-up (Sightly altered it, but not much. Perhaps this will be an alternate scenario for the Chicago situation...). You can play whatever you feel like, we'll need some of everything, although I'm not totally sure how I will handle Deckers and The Matrix yet, but Magic shouldn't be too hard since I will need to tone down the rules for forum play on everything.

As for the Shadowrun history, if you want to you can, but I'll give the semi-history for the scenario I'm doing.

[IHateMakingNames]

What's a Decker and The Matrix?

[Forever Zero]

The Matrix is a global network of computers that was put together by the Mega-Corperations to promote free trade of ideas. Basically, almost any computer (Except some secure ones that run only through certain buildings) in the world is connected to the Matrix. Deckers have special cyberware (think robotic implants) called Datajacks that allow them to connect their minds and consciousness to the Matrix, but it isn't like the movie and an imitation of the real world. The Matrix is a sort of pseudo-world, with it's own laws and rules, and is nothing like reality. Deckers hack into the Matrix, then travel through it, trying to find data they can steal and download, or trying to effect computers and machines in the real world, like turning off security systems or opening automatic doors. Corperations have built programs to try to keep Deckers out, and Deckers use their own programs to try to break through. That is a very basic explanation of the Matrix.

[IHateMakingNames]

So, basically, The Matrix is the Internet, but with a little world in it that Deckers can go into?

[BMHadoken]

Like Reboot? (everything computer related has a physical form they have to manipulate?)

[Forever Zero]

Actually it is sort of like reboot. Decker's have their avatar in th Matrix, which looks like a person made of liquid metal, and Decker/Security programs both have forms as well. It is sort of like both I would say, but Reboot would be a decent explanation for how it is, and internet is sort of how it works in size and scale, although since the world is in pretty bad shape, the Matrix is really only used for Corperate computers now, as there aren't many civilian uses anymore. One quick note, to enter the Matrix Decker's go into a trance and no longer intereact with the real world until the jack out of the Matrix, or are force out by a security program, so Decker's need cover while in the Matrix.

[Dante]

Is anything being planned to prevent "Person A shots Person B, problem solved"?

I once heard it being said, "Let the runners do whatever they want, but make sure they suffer the full consequences."

[Forever Zero]

I once heard it being said, "Let the runners do whatever they want, but make sure they suffer the full consequences."

Ohh, sounds good. I want people to be careful in this RP to not just have "person shoot person B, problem solved," but if people don't do that, I can think up consequences. After all, killing the only man that can get you past a voice scanner wouldn't be a good idea...

[Dante]

I'm serious, you should do that. SR is a gritty world, and randomly killing X berk will result in his friends killing you. The PCs are important, yes, but they are not the most important people in the world, nor do they have character shielding.

[IHateMakingNames]

Whatever happens, I'm haivng a shotgun. Just in case, a shotgun can kill anything, besides a sniper, but if your being sniped, your screwed anyway.

[Forever Zero]

I figured you were serious, and I agree. I never thought of that really, but it is a good system. After someone posts that they just hosed a band of corperate orks without letting me post or comment, they'll find out that killing everyone in sight in the Shadowrun world isn't a good idea, and they will probably be more careful how they post in the future. I want it to be a fun RP, but I don't see how it's fun to god-mod through every combat or situation, I prefer to have to realistically respond to a situation, and it's not realistic to kill everyone without scratching your armor, and having no response when you do. A corp would be angry if you tried to hack their system and failed, they would be furious if you failed and killed thirty guards on the way out, and those corp search-and-destroy teams are no average grunt.

IHMN, shotgun is all yours, but note that it is the future, and some armor (like really nice security armor that Corps like to use) can take a lot of punishment before someone dies.

[Dante]

I feel that the PCs should be allowed to demonstrate their superiority at times, but god-modding is right out. E.g. IHMN can use his shotgun to lethal effect against a pack of corpcops, but if he should run into Red Samurai teams he'd better have backup or he bites it.

[Demon with a Glass Hand]

If you are planning to allow Adepts, in all their supernatural glory, then I would very much be interested in joining up with this little group.

Hell, I'd join up if I all I was allowed to play was a little old lady in a wheelchair!

I'm not to 'uptodate' with the new rules, or any of the background changes in the story (heard that they changed Goblinization for the 3rd edition ...) but I'm willing to do my research on the subject.

As for what should be incorporated, I do think the Matrix and the Astral realm should be a part of the game, but I personally never found riggers to be all that useful or interesting ... I might leave them out (and maybe some of the less useful archtypes) if you didn't want to saturate the 'Character Pool' too much.

I'm all for it. Null Sweet, Chummers!

[Dante]

Rggers are useless... unless they're pointing their drones' autoguns at your head. Then they become slightly less useless, or you become a whole lot more dead.

[Forever Zero]

Third edition is my first edition I've had/used, so I'm not up to date on rulebook/ history changes, but I see no problem with playing an adept. I haven't read up an all a rigger does, but other then piloting drones and vehicles, they don't seem to do much.

For classes, I'll probably include Mage, Shaman, Adept, Street Samurai, Street Thug (Samurai has a sort of Honor Code, thug doesn't), and Decker.

If anyone has any other suggestions for classes I didn't think of, post them. I'll probably get this started either today or tomarrow with an official sign up. I have most of the idea for the story laid out, just need to finalize some details with the actual sign-up sheet and what characters should have to worry about for their sign-up sheets.

[IHateMakingNames]

Wanna give little descriptions of these classes, in SR terms?

[Forever Zero]

Mage is your classic magic user. They study their magic in books and have to learn a lot. Mages are usually very scientific and intelligent, and use logic and learning to cast magic. In summoning, Mages can only summon Elementals at specific Hermatic circles (The mages style of magic is called Hermatic I believe.)

Shaman has a mystic Totem, given to them by a nature spirit that gives them all their power. The spirit speaks to them and gives them strength, but the follower of the spirit must follow the spirits lifestyle or the spirit may become angry and take their magic power away. Spirits also give bonuses to characters depending on the spirit, and most characters act like their spirit would, aka Bear follower would be headstrong, Dog follower would be loyal, Cat followers are crafty and overly clean (It says that in the ruledbook, if cat followers are excessivly dirty, their link to Cat is weakened as is their magic). Shaman cast Shamanistic magic and can summon spirits depending on the environment, aka in a forest, forest spirit which might be a tree. In the city, a city spirit, which could turn into a living pile of garbage...

Adept has no external magic, they focus their magic on making themselves better. They can't cast spells, but they get special adept powers taht let them improve stats, gain special abilities, and other stuff. Think magic that improves the user, and that is like an adept.

Street Samurai is you average fighter. They are heavily armed, well armored, and have lots of cyberware to improve themselves. They are good fighters, usually at multiple things, and very well equipped, but also have a code of ethics they follow. It usually won't interfere with a run, but if something contradicts strongly enough, they may not do it. (It is a class, but I may have taken the morals part to far. They will gladly shoot a guard or do anyhting to save someones life, but they have a code of ethics as well)

Street Thug is like the Samurai, a fighter, but while a Samurai may be a well trained and armed killing machine, a Thug learned his survival skills on the street. They may not be as well armed or armored as a Samurai, but they have the street knowledge to get around and survive in the slums and amongst the gangs without killing everything in sight.

Decker is someone with a love for the Matrix and the freedom it gives. They don't care about cyberware (many people that don't normally deal with runners are turned off by cyberware.) and only care about making the money to survive from jacking in from one place to the next. The live for the cyberworld, and their cyberdeck and datajack are all they need. They aren't the greatest fighters, but they can wield a gun just fine, and their greatest skill is their experience hacking into computers and security systems and using the Matrix to their advantage.

Also a medic class, not in the book, but just think combat medic. They can handle themselves in combat, but focus on keeping their allies alive in battle.

I may also just use the Shadowrun character sheet, and in that case instead of a class you can build you character from the ground up, although it is a bit more complicated.


EDIT: Checked over the chapter on Matrix in the sourcebook, and realized it won't be as hard as I thought. In rhe Matrix, everything is based on icons, from programs to data files to IC (enemy programs designed to keep Deckers out). The examples given were a deckers attack program could be a sword or rocket launcher, and a defense program could run from medieval shield to magical wall of energy, and your personas can be anything when you are in the Matrix, from a ball of fire to a medieval knight to a modern soldier, so Deckers can have their Matrix form look like whatever they want. Keep in mind for the RP, we will be novice Shadowrunners, so Deckers won't have super attack/defense programs that clear a path straight to the data needed, Mages won't be leveling buildings with their magical might, and Fighters won't be charging into a room wielding dual SMGs and clearing a room full of armored Corperate soldiers.

[Dante]

Would a hybrid Street Sam with medic skills be acceptable?

EDIT: Scratch that, a pal of mine talked me into playing a renegade elven paladin (not a holy warrior, more of a secret agent).

[Forever Zero]

I'll probably just use a modified SR character sheet, so just put in the skills you want, then add in the background for your character. For magic users and deckers or other people that want cyberware, I'll probably PM them those lists seperatly so they can choose what they want without making too huge a sign-up sheet, although it will be pretty big anyway.

[IHateMakingNames]

I'ld probably end up being a street thug, since they seem like the shotgun class...

Though, Adept seems to be the most intresting...

[Demon with a Glass Hand]

Adepts are not only the most interesting, but also the most fun!

If were are going to be playing a one archtype per group game, then I call shotgun on the Adept archtype!

[Forever Zero]

What is an archtype? That doesn't seem to appear in third edition...

[Demon with a Glass Hand]

Archtypes were the character templates that came with the game. Since there were no classes, characters built their characters around archtypes that the creators had outlined for them. Archtype is a fancy way of saying character class. They are the molds in which you forge your character.

In 2nd Edition there was a section in the center of the book that illustrated (literally) what each of the Archtypes could do. The also provided you with premade characters if ever you were in need of a quick character or an NPC, etc.

I'll definitely have to brush up on 3rd Edition now. Don't want any misunderstandings as to what I can do as an Adept. The rules may have changed since 2nd Edition became 3rd ... :confused:

[Forever Zero]

In third edition, it seems to switch to be a more freeform system for character creation, with it focusing on stats and attributes to make your character over archtypes. Actually, I just had an idea for how to handle sign-up. Expect a sign-up either tonight or tomarrow morning.

[Dante]

Faster, FZero! Kill! Kill!

Woops, Kerenzikovs went out of control there. Sorry.

[Forever Zero]

Blargh, life delayed me putting the sign-up up. It will be up in one second.

EDIT: You know, I never knew normal posts had character limits until now...

[Dante]

Then again, most normal posts aren't mini-novellas.